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Pick Attack

AhabAhab GB✭✭
edited October 2011 in Technique Posts: 88
Hey there,

I've been going to a few jams recently and I've found them to be very informative experiences. One aspect of technique has stood out in particular, and that is the degree to which you attack the strings.

I have a slight problem in that my guitar, although it has a fine tone, suffers from a lack of volume and bass register, plus is doesn't have a great deal of natural attack. Therefore in jam situations it gets drowned out particularly when there are more than two other guitarists there. I have heard that some players have a very strong pick attack, which comes naturally to them or no doubt, from years playing round campfires with ten other musicians, Django himself I understand had a very strong attack, Tchavolo Schmitt is another I could name.

My learning experience tells me that to develop a strong right hand, you need to learn slowly and softly, and gradually build up this power. However, I can also see that to get the loudness I need, just so I can hear myself in this type of setting, I'm having to work excessively hard and my right hand becomes too stiff. The one basic tenet of right-hand technique seems to me to keep your hand and wrist as loose and as relaxed as possible, and to let the weight of your hand do the work. It shouldn't have to be really hard work should it?

In other words, does this give me an excuse to buy a new guitar? :wink:
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Comments

  • Ahab An excuse to buy a guitar???? :shock: :) GAS is free. IMO one should own the best instrument on can afford. The challenge is how one defines afford. I went through several guitars before Michael Dunn custom built me a magic guitar that has the perfect voice for me. Wasn't cheap but worth every penny. The guitar tells me what to play, I just have to listen carefully. :D

    One thing I have found is that speed of pick attack is much more important than force and IMO speed on rest stroke picking can only be attained by diligent practice and slowly working up making sure that the technique doesn't go away and stiffness enter as speed increases.

    I you haven't got one get ahold of Michael's "Gypsy Picking". I converted over to rest stroke picking about a year and a half ago. It was a slog that was made much easier by support from members here.

    Good luck with it
    The Magic really starts to happen when you can play it with your eyes closed
  • AhabAhab GB✭✭
    Posts: 88
    I was hoping you wouldn't say that, I really, really, really don't need an excuse to buy a new guitar, I like eating too much...

    Seriously though, my guitar's general lack of volume is an issue in these settings, having said that I've seen footage of Angelo Debarre at Samois and my understanding is that whenever some of the top players are in these situations they just plug straight into an amp.

    With regard to rest-stroke pick technique, I've not read Michael's book, but I have had lessons in this technique, and I think I'm fairly comfortable with the concepts involved. Having said that I'm still curious to know what constitutes a strong attack, in the mode of someone like Tchavolo or whether it's a bit unusual to play this loudly. Should I be looking to improve my natural volume and attack over time?
  • HotTinRoofHotTinRoof Florida✭✭✭
    Posts: 308
    At Django in June D.Chang was chiding quite a lot of us in the Level 1 lead class to "play louder" - I can still hear his words as I play - Having practiced the rest stroke technique you'll know that the weight of the pick hand creates tons of volume, it's controlling this 'heavy hand' through lead runs which is the trick and where this forum preaches starting very very slow and then slowly building up speed. There were amazing players at DIJ who could make the quietest guitars shout with their picking technique.

    You can post a video of you playing here on the forum? The guys here are professional and fun to interact with - no need to worry about getting torn apart. Worst case you'll get heavily critiqued and told to change everything, however they'll give you the information you need to develop into a better player. :wink:

    Eating is too important - hang onto your guitar until you know you want/need an upgrade.
  • dennisdennis Montreal, QuebecModerator
    Posts: 2,161
    i've told this story quite a few times, but here it is once again..

    i've had the good fortune of being able to hang out with tons of gypsies in france/holland/belgium/germany, been to their homes and everything and spend many hours with them..

    up until just a few years ago, before all the affordable gypsy guitars appeared, very few of these gypsies could afford an actual gypsy jazz guitar, they played on the shittiest of shitty guitars... no name brands, broken nylon string guitars, etc....

    and guess what, they all got decent volume on them!!

    it's all in the technique!!!

    check tihs video out: no amplification, and tons of rhythm guitars and bass:

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KLz7wlaw4xM

    and these players are actually "soft" pickers compared to say tchavolo schmitt.. the secret is to learn to use the wrist to make the notes "pop" , you want the attack to get the string to explode!
  • klaatuklaatu Nova ScotiaProdigy Rodrigo Shopis D'Artagnan, 1950s Jacques Castelluccia
    Posts: 1,665
    Holy crap! What a great video!

    Denis, what's the name of that tune?

    And who's the rhythm player on the left?

    It's really cool to watch the incredible synchronization of the right hands of Stochelo and whatsisname when both are playing rhythm.
    Benny

    "It's a great feeling to be dealing with material which is better than yourself, that you know you can never live up to."
    -- Orson Welles
  • klaatuklaatu Nova ScotiaProdigy Rodrigo Shopis D'Artagnan, 1950s Jacques Castelluccia
    Posts: 1,665
    ... and oh yeah, this reminds me that the first year I went to Django in June (2007), I took a class with Biel Ballester. Not a Tchavolo-style picker by any means. But he was playing a real POS cheapo Asian guitar that was lying around, and the notes just exploded out of the piece of crap. As Denis says, it's all in the technique. Yeah, some guitars are louder than others, and some setups will play louder than others. But in the end, it's in the hands.
    Benny

    "It's a great feeling to be dealing with material which is better than yourself, that you know you can never live up to."
    -- Orson Welles
  • JonJon melbourne, australiaProdigy Dupont MD50B, '79 Favino
    Posts: 391
    I think that a stiff picking hand when first (and later on too) learning proper rest stroke technique is too often interpreted as a sign that you're doing it wrong, or that it's "not for you", whereas it really means that you probably just haven't done it enough yet to be unconscious and relaxed about it - not a signal to practise less, but to practise more.

    Something I've found helpful is learning to be able to quickly completely relax my hand in between difficult phrases (in the space of half a second or so) so that even if it does start to get tight - which if something is hard for you to play, it inevitably will, by definition - you can recover in the space of a quarter note rest for the next barrage. It builds stamina, and eventually leads to a faster, looser technique.

    Playing slowly of course is important, but I think people often take that too much to heart and forget to also push themselves to play things at the correct speed, which is the practical reality that has to be faced up to.

    That said, new guitars are brilliant.

    Jon
  • AhabAhab GB✭✭
    Posts: 88
    the secret is to learn to use the wrist to make the notes "pop" , you want the attack to get the string to explode!

    Thanks for your reply Dennis, I have the Wawau Adler DVD that you produced, and found it to excellent and very informative. One thing Wawau points out in the lessons section is the importance of dynamics, and that when soloing it's good to have a bit of volume in reserve and not to play at full volume all the way through. It seems to me that attack and volume are two separate things, and to get the strings to pop out is dependent on striking through the strings at the correct angle and allowing the weight of the hand to do the work.
  • BluesBop HarryBluesBop Harry Mexico city, MexicoVirtuoso
    Posts: 1,379
    dennis wrote:
    i
    check tihs video out: no amplification, and tons of rhythm guitars and bass:

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KLz7wlaw4xM

    and these players are actually "soft" pickers compared to say tchavolo schmitt.. the secret is to learn to use the wrist to make the notes "pop" , you want the attack to get the string to explode!
    What the name of that tune?? I've been going crazy trying to find it...
  • JonJon melbourne, australiaProdigy Dupont MD50B, '79 Favino
    Posts: 391
    dennis wrote:
    i
    check tihs video out: no amplification, and tons of rhythm guitars and bass:

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KLz7wlaw4xM

    and these players are actually "soft" pickers compared to say tchavolo schmitt.. the secret is to learn to use the wrist to make the notes "pop" , you want the attack to get the string to explode!
    What the name of that tune?? I've been going crazy trying to find it...

    "Yours and Mine" apparently. Dave Rattray identifies it in the comments below the video. Django played it (Integrale vol 13).

    Jon
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