Correct Fingerings for MSG [UPDATE: Nov 11 2011 - new video]

Matt Cross

Hello everyone!

My name is Matt Cross. This is my first DB forum post.

I am posting to get some tips on the fingerings I use for Montagne Ste. Genevieve / Valse a Django. I am concerned that the ones I am currently using will keep me from being able to speed up. The fingerings I am mainly concerned about are the ones I use for:

1) the triplets over the B7 chord in the A section (currently 3 notes per string over all six strings).

2) the descending G major and descending D7 arpeggios in the B section.

I am using what I understand to be gypsy picking (Alternate picking with downstrokes on all string changes) except for in a few of the slower spots.

If anyone has any tips or criticisms at all, I would appreciate it, whether for the two points I mentioned, or ANYTHING else. I'm fairly new to playing gypsy music like this, but I would like to develop it further.

I am using a 2.5mm Wegen pick, medium gauge Martin 80/20 Bronze strings, and a Larrivee 000 style guitar (I also have an Eastman 000 guitar with a cutaway) until I can afford a Gitane DG-255 (as per Stephane Wrembel's recommendation). I am trying to use the right hand form that I see Stephane use.

Thanks for looking. I look forward to reading what you folks have to say, and enjoying the wealth of knowledge posted on these forums.

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November 11, 2011 update



New video - 125 BPM, much much much less swing, as per Dennis Chang's recommendation, a few different flourishes, and a more robust moustache. Thanks to all who have watched and posted thus far. I appreciate it.

Matt Cross

Nothing?

Did I post this in the wrong section?

Archtop Eddy

Hi Matt. Welcome to the Djangobooks forum. I'm not very good at criticing how to play GJ so I will leave that to others, but I thought I'd mention the following points:

I initially learned the song watching Romane on his Nashville video. You can watch it here on YouTube.





There's are also other YouTube examples of MSG by Romane and other players that might give you some fingering and picking ideas.

Also, if I recall correctly, Romane has the song tabbed out with a play-along on his CD Impair and Valse. I don't happen to have it handy but perhaps someone here could post a pdf of the tab.

Speaking of MSG play-along and study, it's also on Denis Chang's DC Music site as part of etudes under The Style of Yourgi Loffler. There you can clearly see how Yourgi plays it and I believe that Denis intends to provide the tabs sometime soon. His site is at: http://www.dc-musicschool.com/catalogue/video-lessons/in-the-style-of-yorgui-loeffler/

I hope some of this info helps until someone can give you direct suggestions about your playing.

AE

dennis

there are no right fingerings, go for the one you feel sounds best, and gives the best tone!


yes archtop, the transcription is coming shortly!

dennis

oh here's a little quick tip... at that tempo, don't swing your 8th notes, it's a mistake that a lot of people make and it sounds "amateurish", straighten out the 8th notes but with a slightly laid back feel! the swinging 8ths thing is a myth .. i'm not saying it doesn't exist and that pros don't use it, but it's not used as often as beginners think it is, need proof? listen to recordings of joe pass, wes montgomery, django, bireli, stochelo, charlie parker, etc... the swing feel is used for effect and sparingly

check out donna lee:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hANODMX9c5g

there's a slight laid back feel in the 8th notes, but not the pronounced swing feel that is often taught at schools, then listen to the solo, the 8th notes are straighter than in the head...

this will help you sound so much better!

tacosandbeer

dennis wrote:

oh here's a little quick tip... at that tempo, don't swing your 8th notes, it's a mistake that a lot of people make and it sounds "amateurish", straighten out the 8th notes but with a slightly laid back feel! the swinging 8ths thing is a myth .. i'm not saying it doesn't exist and that pros don't use it, but it's not used as often as beginners think it is, need proof? listen to recordings of joe pass, wes montgomery, django, bireli, stochelo, charlie parker, etc... the swing feel is used for effect and sparingly

check out donna lee:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hANODMX9c5g

there's a slight laid back feel in the 8th notes, but not the pronounced swing feel that is often taught at schools, then listen to the solo, the 8th notes are straighter than in the head...

this will help you sound so much better!

At what schools do they teach a pronounced swing feel? Just curious.

And I would refer to Bird's 'laid back' feel as a swing feel. It's not an exaggerated feel, nor should it be. Give any classical musician a transcription of what's on that video and ask them to play it with a 'laid back' feel and it's not going to sound anything like that. Call it whatever you want, it's what most people refer to as swing when referring to that rhythmic feel.

dennis

they teach students to play with a triplet feel, it's taught in a lot of books, when in fact it's not really that, it's relatively straight with sometimes a laidback feel... at times, the triplet feel does happen, but it is more of an effect than the norm for improvisation

murillo

Hi Dennis

Is it to much to ask you to post a short video showing the difference?

Best regards.

Matt Cross

New video in the first post (much much less swing, 125bpm, as opposed to 100bpm in the first video) - thanks to everyone that's commented and offered tips and advice so far. I appreciate it.