Busato Neck Problem

Michael Bauer

If I have to have a problem, a Busato problem is a nice one to have. Still, I could use some guidance from anyone who has built or worked on these guitars, or has had similar issues. I have a 50's Busato Grand Modele visiting me for three weeks while the owner is away, and my job is to decide whether or not I want to buy the guitar. It's a very good condition, in fact the best condition of any Busato Grand Modele I have personally had my hands on. It's plenty loud and has excellent tone, and I believe it has the potential to get better. It seems like it's been locked away in the case for most of the last few years. No cracks. No sinking of the top, none of the usual stuff you see in vintage guitars.

The problem is that I noticed that the strings and the neck aren't exactly parallel, and edge closer to the high E side. My di Mauro had the same problem and Rodrigo Shopis and I concluded the least invasive thing we could do was move the tailpiece over a wee bit, which straightened things right up and avoided a neck reset. Now it sounds and plays great. I don't know why I fear neck resets, except to say that I figure altering the geometry of a guitar makes it a different guitar after the job is done. Maybe better, maybe worse, but different. I suppose reslotting a blank bridge might also work, but I wonder if that might cause other problems if the real issue is the neck alignment.

I have neither the tools nor the expertise to measure it, but I will say that if the neck is off kilter, it isn't off by much. It has been reset at least once in its life, and the already huge neck was made even bigger by a 1/8" thick piece under the fingerboard. It also has had a recent refret by someone best described as a clown. the frets stick up at all sorts of angles. I know an excellent tech here who can check all that, but while he has worked on a number of manouche guitars here in Chicago, the only Busato's he's seen are mine, and that makes me worry about serious surgery like a neck reset. Wouldn't knowing the exact angle to reset the neck be pretty important?

So am I worrying too much? How can I tell if the neck should be reset again, or whether a reslotted bridge or moving the tailpiece is a better solution? [This is when I miss having RodrigoShopis nearby.] Is a neck reset the serious thing that I seem to think it is, or is it routine?

One thing this guitar cannot take is making the neck even bigger by adding another layer of wood under the fretboard. It's already over 3 1/2" around the back of the neck at the 7th fret. That's pretty big. So if anyone would like to weigh in on this, even if it's just to reassure me that a neck reset is no big deal, I'm all ears.

Jazzaferri

I am not clear why anyone would add yet another piece of wood and where.

Is it the line of thinking that in order to correct the alignment issue one would have to add a shim of sorts. That seems to be totally the wrong thing to do imo.

You might try phoning Michael Dunn and discussing it with him. He's just about retired but has been building a long long time and has solved all the issues over the years. He's a pretty easy guy to talk to.

He ha done major surgery on one of my guitars (took the neck right off) and did a great job, Sounded better than before and it was pretty nice before.

If you get into that level of work and the frets are out think about having then neck redone with a CF channel.

klaatu

Jazzaferri wrote:

If you get into that level of work and the frets are out think about having then neck redone with a CF channel.

Pardon my ignorance - what's a CF channel? Carbon fibre? Chocolate fudge? (I'm betting on the first, but the second has real possibilities).

HarryR

Michael, If the only problem that the guitar had was a slight misalignment of the neck and centerline of the top moving the tailpiece would be a perfectly reasonable solution but in this case a neck reset will fix all the problems except the bad fretwork. When the neck is reset the shim under the fingerboard can be removed as that was placed there to correct a sagging neck projection angle. In the hands of a competent guitar repairman a neck reset is a routine fix. It's generally accepted that a Martin style guitar needs a neck reset every20- 25 years. Harry

Bob Holo

Michael, neck re-sets on Busatos are a bit more serious than most because the necks are 3 piece and he used milk-protein glue and/or hide glue to laminate them. Tough glues, but heat and moisture will undo them and that's what you have to use to get the neck off... and re-gluing surfaces impregnated by casein protein is not ideal. Even re-gluing previously hide glued surfaces is not quite as simple as usually thought because you can't reactivate old hide glue that has been destroyed by the heat used to undo the joint. Anyway, when you remove the neck, the heel does its best to separate and then you have to find a way to re-laminate it while perfectly aligning the surfaces of the tenon and then re-finishing that area which often means going down to raw wood which leads to color blotching & etc. Its not the end of the world, but its also not something that should be done if there are other options because usually on a Busato Grand it is not the problem.

Most Busatos have some neck misalignment side to side because a lot of them appear to have been built without a mold and are not square at the neck joint. Also, be careful about the fingerboard wedge because depending on the model of Busato - it might be part of the design - so if it looks original - it probably is. Busatos were (and are) nice guitars, but they were (and are) quirky as hell. Busato made the biggest necks in GJ and reinforced them with rosewood splines. His neck angles were fairly shallow considering the huge arch of the soundboard so they tend to not need neck re-sets. Some sink around the #2 brace which was a bit undersized, but it's not a neck issue, it's from the rims rotating as a result of the #2 brace sinking which puts pressure on the #1 brace because Busato didn't quite understand .... well... he was human... some things on his guitars might have been done differently in hindsight... but he did them the way he did them and it leads to some fairly predictable issues, none of which are anything to get all that excited about. Anyway... sometimes its a neck issue but not the joint - rather the neck needs to be heat straightened or planed straight. I don't wish to offend when I say this, but GJ guitars are not like Western (Martin) style guitars and so they are often repaired inappropriately. American repairmen love to do neck re-sets but that is seldom the problem with GJ guitars and so solving the problem that way if it is not the problem, just serves to entrench the real problem and make it harder to reverse later. This applies particularly to Busatos which are unique even among GJ guitars. Anyway... send me some pictures and I'll tell you if it is unusual. Or just give me the initials of the owner so I can identify which one it is. If its the one I'm betting it is, the misalignment is not too bad or at least it wasn't the last time I saw it.

frater

I'm sorry Michael but I think there's nothing you can do about that plenty loud Busato with excellent tone, no cracks, no sinking top. The only suggestion I have is: pass it to me! :-)

Jazzaferri

Well now you have heard from a real expert in Bob Holo.

Not being a collectorI don't much worry about minor finish issues. To me if the neck is a problem and the sound is great do whatever is necessary to get the neck to a shape that works for and that is properly set up for the guitar.

If I owned it I would take it to someone like Bob, show him what I wanted insofar as neck profile and say "make it right" :shock:

AS I said I am no collector

klaatu

frater wrote:

I'm sorry Michael but I think there's nothing you can do about that plenty loud Busato with excellent tone, no cracks, no sinking top. The only suggestion I have is: pass it to me! :-)

I think he should keep this one, and since The Beast will then be redundant, pass THAT to ME!

Michael Bauer

Once in awhile, this mechanics of this forum don't work for shit! I just wrote a long reply to everyone who offered their thoughts, and, for some reason, it didn't take. I ususally copy the text before I send, because it seems to happen mostly with long posts, but I forgot this time. Aaaaargh!!!

So, a shorter reply will replce it. Here goes:

Thanks to all who gave me the benefit of their wisdom, and especially to Bob Holo and Craig Bumgarner (who contacted me via PM with alot of good thoughts and ideas), for their serious expertise. I had been told Busato used an unusual glue (you can see some of the bracing pattern of "The Beast" right through the top, and I am told that had to do with the glue he used), and Bob confirmed that. Bob and Craig, I will send pictures to both of you, since you both are interested, as soon as I can take some this weekend. It seems clear to me now that moving the tailpiece and reslotting a new bridge is probably the best solution. It worked really well of the old di Mauro, which was off center much more than this one. Still, I will send pictures and await the benefit of your expertise. Again, my thnaks to you both for sharing your thoughts.

Frater, you are welcome to have at any of my guitars anytime you wend your way to Chicago. You, sir, would be an honored guest!

Jazzaferri, I'm not sure if I am just a bad player, and underfunded collector, or some mutation of the two, but I do have two rules about these wonderful instruments I have been lucky enough to get my hands on: 1) first, do no harm, which leads me to usually seek the least invasive solution to a problem, and 2) share my good fortune with others by letting people see them and play them, from the best players to the two or three that are actually worse than me.

And Benny, I thought when Jazzaferri wrote CF, he meant "cream filling". We could have named the guitar the Busato Grand Eclaire! Imagine, a great guitar and a yummy snack between sets.

Again, my thanks to you all.

klaatu

Michael,

Perhaps it really means a combination of chocolate fudge AND cream filling.

And you are incredibly generous in sharing your wonderful guitars with other enthusiasts. It has been my privilege to flog many of them. Without that experience, many of us would not know what fine vintage GJ instruments are like. Imagine, being able to play Selmers, Busatos, Favinos, Di Mauros, all in one sitting!

frater

Michael Bauer wrote:

And Benny, I thought when Jazzaferri wrote CF, he meant "cream filling". We could have named the guitar the Busato Grand Eclaire! Imagine, a great guitar and a yummy snack between sets.

Neat! But if a Busato Grand Modele was a cake, this cake it would probably be:

http://www.cannoli-siciliani.it/pasticc ... iliane.jpg

P.S.

Thank you Michael: if I'll ever make it to Chicago I will bring one of these with me....