Newbie Questions

NickyEnglish

Hey friends, I have a few random questions that hopefully you guys will be able to help with.

I've always been extremely influenced by Django/Moreno/Joscho having picked up the strumming technique from some street performers in Tel Aviv when I was still a teen (think 'gypsy pop' like Sanseverino, but in English). So, of course, a couple of months ago I got a Cigano guitar, packed my bags and landed in California.

The questions are as follows:

1. Probably most important, the tone. I'm used to a bit of a rich hollowbody+tube amp, and maybe it's being 'behind' the guitar, as opposed to 'facing' the amplifier, but the Cigano sounds a bit like a shoe box sometimes. Not a whole lot of tone. Wegen pick for some reason exasperates the problem.

I'm not really getting a gentle tone that some of my songs sometimes require. Any ideas of modifications to the guitar (I've heard of the piece of leather trick?) or otherwise that will help?

The songs that are straight up la pompe, I'm least concerned about, as the guitar sounds terrific doing those, however when I'm either picking or doing light leads, it sounds very shallow.

Example of both La Pompe and picking (pardon the shoddy recording): http://nickyenglish.bandcamp.com/track/waste-demo

2. Playing Standing Up, I know, I know, Django didn't do this, even Emmet Ray didn't do this, but as a singer/frontman/whatever, I kind of have to. I don't want to mutilate my pretty new Cigano with strap locks, nor do I have the know how (or the budget), so any ideas of a low-income strap solution?

3. Live mic'ing; I can't really afford a nice pickup system for my guitar as of yet, and my two options are more of a vocal's oriented (the demo above was recorded with it) condenser mic or a straight up SM58. Would it work for a small club/bar with a solo performer?

4. Well, this one's fun, I suppose. Any suggestions of gypsy influenced pop artists other than the likes of Movits, Sanseverino and Caravan Palace?

Thanks folks!

Bob Holo

Well Nicky, that's a fairly strident guitar and there is no miracle fix. It sort of is what it is. It has a fairly narrow tonal and dynamic range and not a lot of richness or character... but that's part of why it's among the best starter guitars for learning Gypsy Jazz right & left hand technique. It will respond properly but its not so responsive that it will amplify technique issues. You're going to have to work for the tone. Believe me - that's a good thing if you're starting in this style. When you can make a Cigano sound like Joscho, then you're ready to start looking for that elusive 70's Favino Macias or some other guitar that has more to offer tonally but is a bit harder to control. Mods on a Cigano are... well... your choice... a lot of guys seem to feel good about doing them, so YMMV, but if you want to get up & running as a gigging GJ musician quickly, then the best mod for the guitar is teaching your hands what to do. Get a book called "Gypsy Picking" written by the guy who runs this site (Horowitz) & go to school on it. Eat it. Breathe it. Dogear it. Ingest it. Your sound will change dramatically. Find a good player and take lessons. Gonzalo Bergara & Jeff Radaich are in your area as is Maxwell Garces. If you want a warmer sound you could try the old backward pick trick... get a thick nylon 1.5 or 2mm pick like a Gator and use it backward... play the round edge not the sharp edge. That will also encourage you to view the pick the gypsy way... as something to plunge through strings rather than flick or pick them. A Wegen is going to sound like crap if you're not using it the way its intended - so don't throw it away. You may find you like it when your hands start doing what they need to do in this style. I wouldn't recommend standing till you get the technique straight - or at least practice sitting. It's different than alternate picking & you need to have a fairly stable guitar (on lap) so you can relax your torso and focus on what your hands are doing. I know some good players who stand, but they started sitting. It helps you keep your arms & wrist & torso loose so you can focus on your technique. In terms of mics, I've seen both of those types used with good results, but most mic players in this style use clip-on Lav mics - ATPro70 being the workhorse at about a hundred bucks - it's the best inexpensive lav I know of.

NickyEnglish

Thanks for the reply!

I'll never play a Cigano (or any other guitar for that matter) like Joscho does, because a) I'm not a prodigy and b) I play a bit of a different style. What I do is really a bit far from straight up GJ, so I don't envision myself as being a gigging GJ guy, either.

Hence the standing up part. It's more singer/songwriter with GJ influences?

I'll defo try the backward pick technique though. Thanks again!

MichaelHorowitz

NickyEnglish wrote:

I'm not really getting a gentle tone that some of my songs sometimes require. Any ideas of modifications to the guitar (I've heard of the piece of leather trick?) or otherwise that will help?

Selmer guitars are supposed to be bright and snappy. Trying to get a super thick sound out of them is tough unless you spend a lot on a nice handmade guitar. Silk and Steel strings will help mellow the high end so give that a try. The Gallis are great...

http://shoppingcart.djangobooks.com/str ... ingle.html

Also, using the edge of the pick, not the point, and/or using a highly beveled thicker pick will help darken the sound. Also, play closer to the fingerboard, over the sound hole. The sound is darker there. And of courser, use the Gypsy right hand technique!

http://shoppingcart.djangobooks.com/boo ... cking.html

any ideas of a low-income strap solution?

You'd have to at least install an endpin jack and then get a strap that can be tied to the head stock. I don't think most repairmen would charge very much to install strap pins in the heel and endpin. Probably worth getting that done.

3. Live mic'ing; I can't really afford a nice pickup system for my guitar as of yet, and my two options are more of a vocal's oriented (the demo above was recorded with it) condenser mic or a straight up SM58. Would it work for a small club/bar with a solo performer?

Won't really work unless you play in very quiet environments with a soundman and monitors. For most clubs you need to be screaming loud, the mics will just feedback. A Stimer or Bigtone is the best solution for bar gigs. The Krivo pickups are a lost cost alternative to the Stimer:

http://shoppingcart.djangobooks.com/kri ... ckups.html

4. Well, this one's fun, I suppose. Any suggestions of gypsy influenced pop artists other than the likes of Movits, Sanseverino and Caravan Palace?

Check out Paris Combo:

http://shoppingcart.djangobooks.com/no- ... combo.html

NickyEnglish

Michael, thanks also for the reply (and for the website!).

What is the difference between mic'ing a regular acoustic and my D hole Cigano for a live performance? Are the tonal ranges that different that feedback is unavoidable? Remember, it's going to be just vocals + guitar, and if my violin buddy comes up, then his stuff goes through a DI.

Michael Bauer

Nicky, the Dugain imitation tortoise shell picks seem to have a darker tone (at least for me) than the Wegens. You might want to give one a try. Michael's right about the Galli silk and steels as well. In the end, I always go back to Argies, but silk and steels might be really nice for vocal accompaniment.

There are a couple of other artists to check out. George Cole plays up in the Bay Area. Think of him as Sinatra meets Reinhardt, but some of the tunes border on pop, and he is primarily a vocalist/songwriter, although George plays a pretty mean gutar as well. You can find him on the web and YouTube. The Lost Fingers up in th Montreal area have made a specialty of adapting rock and pop tunes into gypsyish arrangements. there is plenty of video of them as well.

I've only heard one tune from Opus 4 (?), but what I heard was a vocal tune that was sort of pop oriented and quite nice.

And heed Bob Holo's wise words about Gypsy Picking. Every hour you spend with it will save you dozens of hours of frustration down the road.

frater

A Gitane 250M would probably suit your style better...

NickyEnglish

It was a financial decision at the time, really. Shipping a rather heavy tube amp and then lugging it around LA wasn't on the cards until I'm more settled here. The Cigano was twice less expensive than the 250, but I remember looking at it.

Thanks!

If I was putting a 'strap' through the headstock, wouldn't I be able to secure it between the tailpiece and the body?