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Radiused Fingerboard Gypsy Guitar
happyjazzer
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Done a bit of research on the above subject. Myself predominately a La Pomp player. I play mostly chords on the 4 lower strings and Ist 4 strings and chords on the middle strings. I have read that chords on the lower 4 are harder to play on a radiused FB than on a flat FB. Your experience? Also I believe the radius is in between 16 and 20 degrees. That to me seem’s a bit excessive—maybe I am wrong? Something a little lower? Say 7 to 9 I/2 degrees maybe?
Your thoughts?
What commercial make of Gypsy Guitar offer a radiused FB?
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Every modern GJ guitar has a radiused board AFAIK. Some of the older French guitars I've seen have flat boards. Only classical guitars routinely have flat boards.
Radius edit boards make playing chords more comfortable. I would not stress the amount of radius in the board all that much. I do a compound 12-20 I think but it makes not a huge difference I don't think.
I should say I have no idea if the high end French guitars or Selmers were radiused. I assume they would be. A non-radiused board isn't super pleasant to play. I have been putting a very mild radius on my classical guitars since I started. I don't think anyone minds.
Michael Dunn's fingerboards are flat--and wide (my Daphne's is 1-7/8"). This presented no problem until my left hand started having thumb-joint problems, and in any case I've concluded that the crucial factor is the neck profile--the Daphne's is very shallow. I have two other guitars with flat 1-7/8 fingerboards that give me no discomfort because they have deeper neck profiles.
Interesting, you sure they are dead flat?
Yup, on mine at least. Michael apprenticed as a classical builder, and it shows in several aspects of his design formula. Not that he might not at some point tried a different neck geometry--he can be pretty exploratory.
Interesting...I guess the supposed comfort of a radiused board is mostly theoretical as I've never really played a non-radiused steel string.
I think it makes sense that having the fingerboard have some radius in it in that for playing bar chords the radius reflects the natural curve of your index finger and having the strings on different planes makes it easier to press the middle strings down.
But I've never a/b'd it so who knows?
Another factor in my left-hand-discomfort issues that I ought to nail down is whether the fingerboard edge is sharp or slightly rolled-off. The Dunn has a sharp right angle, while my two Cloutier flat-tops have bound fingerboards with a slight roll to the binding.
I played the Dunn for nearly twenty years with no problems before the left thumb joint and the big muscle at its base both started complaining at extended use. I experienced no such discomfort on the Cloutiers and finally decided that it is the combination of a wide, flat fingerboard plus a shallow profile that was the cause. I'd never had left-hand problems with any of the classicals I played--though their even wider fingerboards meant I couldn't indulge the bad habits (thumb-over grips) I have on steel-strings.
I'll have to measure all my wide-necks--there's a Shelley Park Elan 12 I got to fill in for the Dunn, and I can't recall whether its fingerboard is as wide or flat or slightly radiused--though it definitely has a deeper profile than the Dunn and gives no discomfort.
yeah I don't know, I'd love to be able to play everyone's guitar when they talk about it and see what it feels like to me. I'm trying to get my necks to feel like an old shoe...extremely comfortable to the extent you don't even think about it. Medium thickness, rounded edges, a little radius, super smooth on the back, not sticky, etc, etc.
For me a lot of the thicker gypsy jazz necks feel really weird, particularly so in that the thumb over technique is so essential to the style. But I'm not a great player, I'm maybe missing something. My thumb joint seems to have a little arthritis...after playing rhythm for a bit I definitely have to crack my thumb.
Glad to see I'm not alone. You've described exactly how mine feels. Pain in the first thumb knuckle and soreness in the muscle at the base of the thumb. I used to do a lot of the thumb chords. I especially liked being able to play a dom7 where I could add the #5 with the pinky and then pull off to the 5 (i.e. 5x566x -> 5x565x). Now, I typically play a dom7 with 6th string root as Root-3rd-7th-3rd so 5456 for A7. Generally only use the thumb for a major6 chord or just triad major with 6th string roots. That reduces the amount of "use" for the thumb joint over the top. But as a system, it is so nice to do a ii7-V9-I6 with the thumb over the top etc.
Did you also have to change your chord grips to accommodate? I do have one guitar that either the radius is flatter or the edges aren't rolled as much, but it is a bit more uncomfortable to play with the thumb.
Most of the GJ instruments I have had on the bench had a 20” fingerboard radius (instruments include Selmers, Favinos, DuPont, AJL and quite a few more). The Collins plan specs it at 20” (and my builds are all 20).
On the older instruments I have seen that have undergone multiple re-frets, the fingerboards often have been hand-sanded and aren’t “perfect-20” but they are close.
The one noticeable 20-exception I have seen up close was a Park Elan which had a 16” fingerboard radius (and became near-flat north of the 14th fret). Great feeling neck- I need to try 16” one of these days.