Cheap Electric for a Gypsy Jazz Player?

aidan_s · June 6

Hi all,

I'm mostly a gypsy jazz player but after a cheap electric to achieve two things:

A quiet practice instrument (for playing manouche style but late at night etc)
An electric I can take along to a blues or straight-ahead jam if the mood takes me

Key thing is in both scenarios I want to keep my technique as consistent as possible with how I play on a selmac (broken wrist, rest stoke etc). My budget would be around $600 but curious if this might be an interesting broader discussion as I imagine others might be after the same thing at different price points - found past posts on quiet practice guitars (eg yamaha silent) but of course that doesn't double well as your only electric..

I've thought of picking up one of the Ibanez hollowbodies - they're nice guitars for the money and have closer to correct dimensions for the technique than a solid/semi-hollow, but stock they're quite bloomy and have a bit of a 'delicate' feel to them that doesn't encourage digging in. Not sure if putting a set of thick rounds on one/pumping up the action/lowering the pickups might achieve something with a bit more bark/snap & that you can hit a bit harder, but worried it might still turn out a bit too loud acoustically for late-night apartment playing. Anyone found a good solution?

Cheers!

wim · June 6

My 2 cents on this- keeping the technique consistent just doesn't work. Unfortunately. It is difficult (at least for me) to use GJ technique without feeling like a bull in a china shop, and the sound isn't good. Significant adjustment of right hand technique is necessary when playing on electric. The scale length and the distance between strings is also problematic, and throws off muscle memory.

It is less about the broken wrist and rest stroke patterns, which still work to some degree, the main problem is the string tension. The electric strings don't "push back" hard enough, something about the lack of bounce back means a much lighter touch is required.

Joonas · June 6

I have one of those Ibanez hollowbodies. One of the more "expensive" out of the Artcore series. I am disappointed about that guitar. It has several problems but the biggest problem of all is that the neck is warped. That's something that can't be fixed. It is also very choosey about strings and they have to be thick. Acoustically it sounds dead, although that's probably something to be expected. Maybe I just got a lemon but it is what it is. Some kid would probably be really happy with that guitar but my Harley Benton Flying V (which I sold before buying the Ibanez) was actually a much better guitar, albeit it was a solidbody of course.

MikeK · June 6

Hi Aidan

This is a recurring topic that comes up on the forum from time to time. I played only archtops for several years on my gypsy jazz gigs in Asheville NC (I play around 140/year) and had a great time doing that. But alas, I settled back in to only playing GJ guitars a couple of years ago. (Mainly for the things Wim said and for the fact that I cant replicate the percussive nature of comping on a GJ guitar on an archtop, no matter how nice or expensive it may be). If you're interested in an inexpensive quality archtop, I have an Epiphone Zephyr Regent for sale for $725 (+ $150 for shipping). PM me if you want more details, or just type in the guitar in the search engine here & you'll see my post for it from last year. I even had my luthier move the fretboard dot to the 10th fret, like a GJ guitar. As you probably know, Django played archtops in the final years of his life, so it must be ok, right?!

paulmcevoy75 · June 6

I dunno I think you can gypsy pick on any electric guitar pretty well. Obviously it's different from a Selmer but I think that's what plenty of great players did. George Benson maybe?

Heavy ish strings on a telecaster?

lucky · June 6

I’d go for a secondhand Ibanez GB10.

Or failing that just buy a Squier Tele and spend the rest on gypsy jazz picks.

MichaelHorowitz · June 6

I do most of my noisy bar and restaurant gigs with this Ibanez:

https://www.djangobooks.com/Item/ibanez-george-benson-lgb300-vys

Larger body with a more traditional jazz feel/sound than the GB10. Super warm and full sounding plugged in but rather quiet acoustic as it's quite heavy and made with laminate woods. I string it with 14 gauge flatwounds.

https://www.djangobooks.com/forum/uploads/ND4W5YITPXKU/djangos-tiger.mp3

aidan_s · 1:46AM

@MichaelHorowitz sounding great on django's tiger, that gives me hope! @MikeK Looks very nice, I'm currently living in the Thai countryside and can La Pompe to my heart's content at any hour of night but planning a move to Berlin which is where the late-night noise concern is coming from - I suspect in either case the postage from North Carolina would kill the good deal but hope you find a buyer soon!

Do wonder if an ES125 clone with p90s (eg a second hand Eastman 405) or a Godin 5th Ave might handle being properly whacked better than a humbucker jazz box..

Definitely see the wisdom in just grabbing a nice squier tele as well - it's less exciting but the sonic & tactile qualities I'm after probably pull away from something you can play at 1am without getting complaints from neighbours in an apartment block

Russell Letson · 9:14AM

I don't play GJ any more (and was only ever a rhythm player anyway), but I do own and play a range of guitar types and styles, so--

The guitar tells you how to play it, which is another way of saying that every build configuration has its own performance envelope, and that the crucial variable is the player's technique. The GJ sound that most players here pursue (dry, percussive, loud, slightly nasal) is at the confluence of guitar design and player technique, which says to me that getting something like the desired sound from a non-Selmer-tradition build formula requires a change in technique. As does getting a non-GJ sound from a Selmer-style. (My solution: a Michael Dunn Daphne, which represents some departures from classic Selmer design elements.)

I'd pay attention to Michael's experience (a 14 set is pretty heavy for a conventional jazz electric)--and to the fact that lots of GJ players that followed Django have played electrics. The results aren't exactly a pre-war Hot Club sound, but the music remains GJ.

MichaelHorowitz · 9:35AM

@Russell Letson

I'd pay attention to Michael's experience (a 14 set is pretty heavy for a conventional jazz electric)

It’s the norm for hardbop guys like George Benson, Wes, Russell Malone, etc. the advantage is that the super heavy strings allow you to get the action very low while retaining good string tension. Having all that metal from the heavy string really close to the pickup = super fat sound.