Left hand fingerings

emicad · March 2006

Hi Michael,
I’m looking at your Gypsy picking book, in particular Example 11.2 (Minor double bass pattern) and I’ve noticed a thing: why do you suggest different left hand fingerings compared to your Unaccompanied Django book? For example, in the Am I don’t see a double stop, in the Bm7b5 where you suggest to use a little barrè with fingers 2 and 3 added I have seen suggested a 4 fingers classic position in the other book (some times not always), the Dm is fingered with fingers 1, 2 and 4 instead of 1, 2 and 3, the same for Fm. What’s the reason? More experience added? Or simply more comfortable positions in that situation?
Another question (not in that exercise): I’m studying Improvisation 3 part 2 and I’ve found this chord

- - -
- 0 -
- 2 -
- 3 -
- 3 -
- 1 –

It’s like a F with the note B instead of C (B string).
Why you suggest tu use the thumb and a double stop with second finger on strings A and D instead of fingers 3 and 4 like you’ve done other times? It’s terrible for my little hand...
I have a lot of other examples but I don’t want to stress you, it’s nothing important, just for curiosity.
Thanks

MichaelHorowitz · March 2006

emicad wrote:

Hi Michael,
I’m looking at your Gypsy picking book, in particular Example 11.2 (Minor double bass pattern) and I’ve noticed a thing: why do you suggest different left hand fingerings compared to your Unaccompanied Django book?

Hi..

Actually, Example 11.2 is fingered the same as Etude #2 in the Unaccompanied book. That's an example where conventional finger work better. It was transcribed from Boulou Ferre and that's how he would play it. The Django pieces use the 1 finger double stops, and usually they work better that way.

emicad wrote:

Another question (not in that exercise): I’m studying Improvisation 3 part 2 and I’ve found this chord

- - -
- 0 -
- 2 -
- 3 -
- 3 -
- 1 –

It’s like a F with the note B instead of C (B string).
Why you suggest tu use the thumb and a double stop with second finger on strings A and D instead of fingers 3 and 4 like you’ve done other times? It’s terrible for my little hand...

Correct me if I'm wrong, but I think every instance of that chord in the Unaccompanied book uses the Django style fingering (i.e. thumb and 1 finger double stop). You can use a more conventional fingering, often it doesn't matter. But sometimes it's easier to use the thumb when you're playing many other chords with the thumb. The problem is that some chords can only be played with the thumb (i.e. G Maj 6/9 or G min 6/9) while others can be played either way. But if you're already playing the chords that can only be played using a Django fingering, it's weird to switch back to a conventional fingering for the other chords. Your hand has to be in a different position, so it's easier to just keep the thumb where it is.

Capice?

Good luck!

'm

emicad · March 2006

Michael Horowitz wrote:

emicad wrote:

Hi Michael,
I’m looking at your Gypsy picking book, in particular Example 11.2 (Minor double bass pattern) and I’ve noticed a thing: why do you suggest different left hand fingerings compared to your Unaccompanied Django book?

Hi..

Actually, Example 11.2 is fingered the same as Etude #2 in the Unaccompanied book. That's an example where conventional finger work better. It was transcribed from Boulou Ferre and that's how he would play it. The Django pieces use the 1 finger double stops, and usually they work better that way.

emicad wrote:

Another question (not in that exercise): I’m studying Improvisation 3 part 2 and I’ve found this chord

- - -
- 0 -
- 2 -
- 3 -
- 3 -
- 1 –

It’s like a F with the note B instead of C (B string).
Why you suggest tu use the thumb and a double stop with second finger on strings A and D instead of fingers 3 and 4 like you’ve done other times? It’s terrible for my little hand...

Correct me if I'm wrong, but I think every instance of that chord in the Unaccompanied book uses the Django style fingering (i.e. thumb and 1 finger double stop). You can use a more conventional fingering, often it doesn't matter. But sometimes it's easier to use the thumb when you're playing many other chords with the thumb. The problem is that some chords can only be played with the thumb (i.e. G Maj 6/9 or G min 6/9) while others can be played either way. But if you're already playing the chords that can only be played using a Django fingering, it's weird to switch back to a conventional fingering for the other chords. Your hand has to be in a different position, so it's easier to just keep the thumb where it is.

Capice?

Good luck!

'm

At first, I think you've done a great work to write the chords exactly like Django played, it's fantastic to understand his movements and chord approach on the instrument, but you know that for people that can use all the fingers, the approach is instinctively different, expecially for people that have played for years before listening to Django's music. Looking at your books (I have all you've published) you always (except for some cases) suggest 4 fingers left hand fingerings and it's good so, cause we have the possibility to play the instrument without phisical limitations, roght? So, why think with 4 fingers for solos and with 2 fingers (adding 3d and 4th fingers like Django did) for rhythm? It's curious to see this...
I usually use the thumb position in all the situation where it MUST to be used to have some particular voicings (like Major or minor 6/9, and other examples as you suggest), for the rest I use common jazz fingerings like most of the people I've seen. I've noticed that there is not a "rule" in this thing: if you think ALWAYS at your thumb on bass you must to change all the chords positions, on 6th string above all. For example, major 7 chords, minor 7, minor chords on 5th string (Debarre plays it this way) and a lot of others, often more comfortable in the classical way for me. If you decide to simulate Django's hand, why don't use the thumb always? I've seen on most of the books some suggested chord fingerings and most of the time are classic jazz fingerings except for typical Django chords but also some others for unknown reasons, why? Can you explain me this? If you need I can post some examples ok?
I think it's an interesting thing to discuss and never posted before (i hope)

.
Thanks for your reply

MichaelHorowitz · March 2006

emicad wrote:

At first, I think you've done a great work to write the chords exactly like Django played, it's fantastic to understand his movements and chord approach on the instrument, but you know that for people that can use all the fingers, the approach is instinctively different, especially for people that have played for years before listening to Django's music. Looking at your books (I have all you've published) you always (except for some cases) suggest 4 fingers left hand fingerings and it's good so, cause we have the possibility to play the instrument without phisical limitations, roght? So, why think with 4 fingers for solos and with 2 fingers (adding 3d and 4th fingers like Django did) for rhythm? It's curious to see this...

I mostly tried to follow the way Gypsies finger things. Few of them try to play exactly like Django, but they do use the thumb and the 1 finger double stop a lot. So it's a mix of the two. Ultimately, there are only two reasons to use unconventional Django fingerings:

1) Because it's the only way to play a chord or patten.

2) It can be played using conventional fingerings, but works better in context with a Django style fingering.

'm

emicad · March 2006

Michael Horowitz wrote:

emicad wrote:

At first, I think you've done a great work to write the chords exactly like Django played, it's fantastic to understand his movements and chord approach on the instrument, but you know that for people that can use all the fingers, the approach is instinctively different, especially for people that have played for years before listening to Django's music. Looking at your books (I have all you've published) you always (except for some cases) suggest 4 fingers left hand fingerings and it's good so, cause we have the possibility to play the instrument without phisical limitations, roght? So, why think with 4 fingers for solos and with 2 fingers (adding 3d and 4th fingers like Django did) for rhythm? It's curious to see this...

I mostly tried to follow the way Gypsies finger things. Few of them try to play exactly like Django, but they do use the thumb and the 1 finger double stop a lot. So it's a mix of the two. Ultimately, there are only two reasons to use unconventional Django fingerings:

1) Because it's the only way to play a chord or patten.

2) It can be played using conventional fingerings, but works better in context with a Django style fingering.

'm

Various times you talked about first finger double stop, maybe you mean second finger?
Thanks for the reply

MichaelHorowitz · March 2006

emicad wrote:

Various times you talked about first finger double stop, maybe you mean second finger?
Thanks for the reply

No...I said "1" or "one" finger double stop. Not "first." It means pressing down to strings with one figner (but not a bar). You can use any figner, but usually the middle or index.

'm

emicad · March 2006

Michael Horowitz wrote:

emicad wrote:

Various times you talked about first finger double stop, maybe you mean second finger?
Thanks for the reply

No...I said "1" or "one" finger double stop. Not "first." It means pressing down to strings with one figner (but not a bar). You can use any figner, but usually the middle or index.

'm

I know what you mean, we have already discussed about double stop somewhere...
Thanks