010 gauge strings are for ..?

FrankieDetergent

i've just made myself a gyspy jazz guitar. well.. the top is not from spruce but from some fir wood that i cared about, i'll post some pics and some audio clips when i get the strings on, but know regarding strings..

i think that most of the guitarists want their (unplugged) guitars to sound punchy and with definition, so why do the 010 gauge strings ..exist?
are the 010 for long scale, and the 011 for short scale? but i see most guitarists using the 011's.
or are the 010 used mostly for pickups, for amplified sound?

i'm thinking of getting the 010 for two reasons:
1. for the neck i used the strongest woods i could find around, but i hadn't had a truss rod to insert.. so i am a tiny bit scared (although i red here that the truss rod shouldn't be used for stability.. so not necessary for this ..i hope)
2. for the fret calculation i used this http://www.stewmac.com/FretCalculator , but for some strange reason while i'm now doing some tests (with electric guitar strings) i find that i should move the bridge back 1cm to be in tune so right know my scale is 680mm. so even more tension, if this is a permanent error.

so i guess the the 010 are for me, right? ('cause i still want that hard punchy percussive sound)

Shawn

I have two long scale oval hole Selmers and use 10's on one and 11's on the other, so it really comes down to a few different factors (what sounds and feels better to you personally)...

1. String Tension - greater tension on the top and bridge should drive the sound more. Heavier guage strings should technically sound louder, but you'll also loose flexibility.
2. Flexibility and feel - smaller guage strings will feel "slinky" and loose, making the flexibility of the strings greater. Heavier strings will feel more "rigid" and "stiff", which also depends heavily on the scale length of your guitar.
3. Sound - I notice a chunkier sound with 11's and a more refined sound with 10's, which to my mind makes one good for rhythm and one good for lead.

I'm sure there are other reasons to choose one over the other. Typically 11's are used on short scale Selmer's and 10's are used on long scale Selmer's. However, this doesn't necessarily mean your guitar is going to be the same.

Good luck!

Jazzaferri

Michael Dunn built my Ultrafox with the idea of using 11s. He prefers the tonal balance he gets from them and it is a long scale. I think each guitar responds a little differently to the strings and depending on the sound one wants, how one plays, and the guitar, it is worth checking out the difference between the two sets.

Its best to compare new set to new set.

Michael Bauer

Django played 10's, and so did every other great player from the past, so if you want a more vintage tone, that's the place to start. Argie 11's didn't exist until the 1990s, when Romane supposedly asked for them. Alot of modern builders, like Dupont, sell their guitars with 11's; it seems to be the trend.

That said, each guitar will tell you what it wants. Try a set of each and listen. Go with whichever sound best to you. Once the guitar is broken in, you may even find you go heavier or lighter, depending on how the guitar matures.

I know alot of players play 10's, but use the high E, and sometimes the B from a set of 11's.

Keep in mind that your choice of pick will also play a role. Thin picks, all the rage these days, tend to work better on average with 11's, while a fatter, more traditional pick will work well on either set, but are almost always better with 10's than thin picks.

FrankieDetergent

i have a slightly silly question, does one of them have a more "guitar" sound then the other? by that i mean more like a spanish-classical type of sound, 'cause during some tests of mine (with electric and nylon strings) it sounded somewhere in between an unamplified jazz guitar (not the lack of volume, i have enough of volume especially highs, but the "flick" sound when u pluck it), a banjo (only oncertain freqs), and an oud . i want to put a tiny bit of "guitar" back into it's sound. i'm guessing the 11's can do that better?
i know i need the "silverplated on silk and steel strings", that i'm pretty sure of.

anyway i'll get those gypsy strings on soon hopefully and get it over with
thanks guys

Passacaglia

Thanks, Michael, great information. I'm trying out several things - simultaneously, I suppose, which never works.

I've a DG-300. I used to blame the guitar for "wetness." Denis rightly disabused me of the notion.

I've only ever used 11's.

I'm been working pretty intensively with Denis's In the Style of Stochelo; so have thought of Galli strings (aware that he is sponsored by Galli, I've also heard some interesting things about them - think it was Jay, if so, thanks, Jay...).

I'm curious what 10's sound like on the 300.

I've also grown accustomed to using a thin pick, the Dupont Gator 2. The rounded "lobe" towards the back. Kind of plays like a mando pick.

Denis has been a lot of help lately (critiquing my own youtube posting, providing his own; webcam with him yesterday, that really helped). I realize I've been clutching my non-pick fingers too tightly - and it affected the swing of my right hand. Really working on letting these all go, in order to get a relaxed, yet driving wrist.

Today, playing with Stochelo's suggestion; I use a Big City 1.8, and just the very nub of the pointed end. Feels weird, somewhat harsh or "garish," but almost no pick noise. I suspect like all things, just takes learning to eliminate the weird tone.

Sorry for the length, but just piqued by your post, particularly the point about the 10's being traditional, and the 11's, very recent (I didn't know this). Choosing between 10's, 11's, gallis, thin pick (lobe) thin pick (nub of point), thick picks...

...lots to get lost in.

Michael Bauer

A 10 on the high E will sound a little thinner than an 11, which is why some players swap them out.

Some guitars sound better with 10's, some sound better with 11's, and some sound best when you mix the sets. Trust your ears, they won't mislead you.

Passacaglia

Michael Bauer wrote:

A 10 on the high E will sound a little thinner than an 11, which is why some players swap them out.

Some guitars sound better with 10's, some sound better with 11's, and some sound best when you mix the sets. Trust your ears, they won't mislead you.

Michael, when you say high E - do you mean, the bass E, so some players keep the E and A, e.g., from the 11 set?, while using the more treble strings from the 10 set?

BTW - missed seeing you at the Midwest Fest, was hoping to catch up. Also hope to get down to your neck of the woods to see you, Adrian, Alfonso...and other Chicago delights...

Michael Bauer

Paul, I have used Galli silk and steels, but just never cared for them that much. I heard guitars that sound great with them, but for me, they just didn't quite do it. I use fat picks (3.5, 4.0, and 5.0) for most of my guitars, and the silk and steels seem too tame that way. And I guess I just wasn't impressed enough to start experimenting with different picks to see what would work best with them.

I do have to say that there have been some extensive threads running here about picks, strings, etc. In the end, I'm not sure any of it matters. I've told this story before, but I saw Wrembel walk into a room at Django in June one year and grab a $200 Aria and start playing. And while he was playing it, it was the best sounding guitar in the room. You should have seen the look one the kids face when Stephane handed it back to him. Eyes like saucers, but he left the room with a bit of a strut.

It isn't the gear, it's the player. Nothing else matters. And I say this five feet from a giant bowl of picks, two feet from a drawer full of stings, and across the room from as good a collection of gypsy guitars as you'll find. Wrembel on an Aria will sound better than me on a Selmer every time.

And by "high E" I mean in pitch.

Passacaglia

Fantastic story, Michael. Thanks. I respect Stephane a good deal, got a lot from him this DIJ, and your story hits home. I learned enough about thinking a high-end guitar was a cure-all, from Denis showing me some young gypsy kids nailing it - using no pick at all, just a thumb - on a couple no-name, very low end guitars. So though I crave a luthier's guitar, I know my 300 will do just fine, for some time to come.

And though I know Denis uses a Dunlop gator, lobe edge (this is something I learned from his student, I think it was...), and Stochelo use(d) a Big City, nub of the point, I hear you and know either can pick up a levi's button and make it sing.

"It isn't the gear, it's the player."

My vote for best line this year. Back to work.

Michael Bauer

Paul, I only used 10's on my DG-300, so can't compare them to 11's on that guitar.

If you are working with Denis, you have as good a teacher as there is. Trust him, because he knows things...lots of things. And there is no better person that I know.

I was sad to miss the Midwest fest in Madison, but foot surgery kept me confined to quarters that weekend. I did send the di Mauro up for Joscho to use, since he loves that guitar. So I was there in spirit. I hope I'll see you soon. We're playing on the 9th at Uncommon Ground, so come down if you can.

Now get rid of those sissy thin picks, get a proper piece of chalk (as my wife calls my picks), and have at it. 8)

See you soon.