010 gauge strings are for ..?

Passacaglia

Michael Bauer wrote:

Paul, I only used 10's on my DG-300, so can't compare them to 11's on that guitar.

If you are working with Denis, you have as good a teacher as there is. Trust him, because he knows things...lots of things. And there is no better person that I know.

I was sad to miss the Midwest fest in Madison, but foot surgery kept me confined to quarters that weekend. I did send the di Mauro up for Joscho to use, since he loves that guitar. So I was there in spirit. I hope I'll see you soon. We're playing on the 9th at Uncommon Ground, so come down if you can.

Now get rid of those sissy thin picks, get a proper piece of chalk (as my wife calls my picks), and have at it. 8)

See you soon.

Oh, man, I knew you were facing something like this, sorry to hear it, buddy. Hope your healing is on track. Knowing that was your diMauro...wow. Joscho put on a helluva show. Like Alfonso, it's the music, and something more, a sense of theatre. Loved it. (also....it was wonderful to play beside Alfonso campfire-side. I hadn't had this chance since studying with him only briefly at Old Town....the man built a 3 string literal cigar box, the night before coming, and used it in one of his sets. What a guy).

I'm gonna put the 9th into my logistics wizard. I'd love to come down.

Re: Denis, absolutely agree. I know it's lame, but I had a bit of hero-shyness at DIJ (this includes your room, Michael), so I didn't avail myself of Denis, despite years of learning from him via DVDs, this forum, etc. I've been fortunate to have a couple of webcam lessons with him, only wish I had the opportunity to see him in person again....looking forward to next year's DIJ already.

"sissy picks..." hahahah. The jam group I lead, one of the violinists called my Wegen 7 a "pepto-bismol."

Or, wait....maybe she was saying my playing made her need a pepto-bismol.

ps: I don't want to embarrass either of you, but Denis had a lot of good things to say about you and your playing, Michael.

noodlenot

Shawn wrote:

1. String Tension - greater tension on the top and bridge should drive the sound more. Heavier guage strings should technically sound louder, but you'll also loose flexibility.

correct, but you´ll also need a greater energy input (aka force) to produce the same amount of displacement/oscillation of the string... also, inharmonicity should be higher with heavier strings, though i suspect the difference to be so small/subtle that it would be lost in the "background noise".

I guess Michael is on the money here. I have two selmer-style guitars and one (a portuguese one, made by a neighbor of mine - !!!) needs 10s, doesn´t breed properly with 11s. OTOH my altamira goes well with either, but i still find a 11 high E complements the 10s well. we´re amateurs are spoiled with choices...

And Frankie, please show us your guitar. i´m curious to see it.

cheers,
Miguel.


edited for typo.

FrankieDetergent

guys guys this is the gear part of the forum. for the little it's worth, we want the make the most out of gear, because if i put the 11's and in a half of year my guitar neck is bent ..i won't use it.. if i hear mostly banjo sounds from my guitar ..i won't use it, if ur pick is to sissy ..u won't use it :P

Jazzaferri

If one is using thinner picks for rhythm My experience is one needs to have a very relaxed wrist and the stroke should be parallel with the strings or the tone gets out of balance really easily. The sharper crisper attack carries with it the responsibility to have a good flat rhythm stroke grooved. For those that attack down somewhat when chording, the fatter picks provide a more even sound to my ear.

I switched almost two years ago and I still have to concentrate a bit on my stroke at faster speeds, or not worry about the bassier response.

Passacaglia

That's a very apt post; thanks, Jay. One of the things that has happened almost as a side accident of my desire to be a better rhythm player, has been to hear a bit more discerningly - it's more and more about really hearing the rhythm, which previously I was unable to do, lost in the melody and soloing and the sheer weight of all the things I want to work on.

I love both Hono and Nous'che. I've tried very hard to get inside what they do (granting doing it without benefit of a master to correct as I go). With no diminishing love for Hono and what he does, I find myself going more and more to the sound that Stochelo (in his/Denis's DVD) and Nous'che do, and part of that, to me, is the balance of the bass with a light, sultry swing. I know words like "Alsacian" and "Dutch" are difficult to apply, but to the extent I can discern a difference between, say, Douce Ambiance of Bireli's 15 album, and Dinette off of the Rosenberg's Roots, the lightness, combined with the bouncy swing, that I hear in the Rosenberg's stuff really grabs me.

And what you're saying helps explain a lot in terms of sheer technique, relative to something I've worked on for some time now...I really care about little else but seeking a deadly even sound, with good bass foundation, and yet a lightness that swings. I've never had an issue with too tight a wrist, really - just a wildly out of control wrist that wasn't being utilized properly. Your post speaks directly to a better technical understanding. Thanks again, Jay.

edit: sorry for the long post, everyone, but wanted to add. I think I've discovered today that my hold on the pick has likely been somewhat off, and the habit has become learned. Watching Denis, and Stochelo, I see a very even, parallel stroke across the beats. I might be wrong, but part of that is that I see a thumb across the axis of the pick's direction of attack...very hard for me to describe, and I'm sorry if this is convoluted - but the end result is a kind of "plane" strum, as opposed to an "arc" that begins light, goes heavy, and ends light.

Not sure I'm getting this across, or if I am, whether this is an accurate observation (bod is acting up, and sometimes it affects my cognition... :oops: ).

I wonder if this begs the question -

Jazzaferri wrote:

For those that attack down somewhat when chording, the fatter picks provide a more even sound to my ear.

Guilty, I think. So does one grab a thicker pick, or work to get the stone-even groove? (A sincere question).

I've seen Bireli, in an interview, state thick picks were essential to the gypsy swing sound.

Bireli Lagrene wrote:

The secret of this music is not that much the left hand, it’s more the right hand. The pick is very important, too. You have to have those thick picks to have the round sound.

and

Bireli Lagrene wrote:

'Do you play with the pointed part of the pick into the string or the rounded side?'

I play with the rounded side. It’s a much warmer sound. It shouts less.

Not sure if this was just something he believes as an ongoing thing, or whether his opinion evolved from there. I've seen and heard players sound dry as bone, and even, on filament-thin picks, compared to what I began with, Wegen 3.5's, 5's and, eventually (one time only), 7. I'm convinced what Michael Bauer (and others, in similar posts) have said is true - ultimately, nothing matters but the player, and I know Bireli could use a quill and blow me away. I'm also convinced that absent limitless years, and limitless abilities, some things make it easier than others. Not even sure what I'm asking anymore.

Jazzaferri

I am scratching my poor ole memory cells to remember who is playing rhythm on Angelo DeBarre's Romano Bashepen (sp?) cd. I really like the rhythm on that.

I did a class with Stochelo at Dfnw and my rhythm player did Nousche's rhythm class. We passed on to each other all that we learned and could remember. Watching Nousche up close in an evening jam I saw just how flat he strums. Even when his hand is almost a blur its still flat over the strings and oh so wonderfully even. Watching SR on ...in the style of dvd ..... same thing.

I think however if you are studying Dennis's stuff, if you master what he has to say about rhythm you will be at the top level. IMO Dennis's cd sets are fantastic. I have all of his plus SR in the style of. Thats enough for me for a couple of lifetimes.

Bones

Hi Jazza,

What do you mean when you say 'flat'?

Thanks

Passacaglia

Jazzaferri wrote:

I think however if you are studying Dennis's stuff, if you master what he has to say about rhythm you will be at the top level. IMO Dennis's cd sets are fantastic. I have all of his plus SR in the style of. Thats enough for me for a couple of lifetimes.

Between his DVDs, and the couple of times I've been fortunate enough to spend an hour with him on webcam, Denis has been an absolute boon. He's so completely generous, to boot. I suspect 5 minutes with him in person is like pounding it out for months, alone.

Just one tiny example - it wasn't until he kindly provided this clip, in response to my playing, that I realized how tight and weird I was holding my picking hand's fingers.

It used to be, fingers extended weirdly out - a tension:



Then, I developed the habit, unconsciously, of holding my non-pick fingers in too tightly:



And as sad as this may seem, it's only been the last couple of days, since spending some time with Denis, watching his vid(s), and the Stochelo DVD, that I finally realized what a flat swing can come from relaxed fingers. I had to come to it by emulating what I saw first (probably my limitation - far more visual than anything else). At any rate,



-and a youtube posting, as soon as I can record a newer clip.

Denis is the best.

Passacaglia

FYI - just picked up the Angelo Debarre/Moreno Trio album, thanks Jay. From this site, it appears rhythm is Nono Reinhardt?

Another guy I want to spend some more time listening to is Herve Gaguenetti, recommended by Denis some months back.

While we're here - sorry, Freddy, for the hijack - any albums, in particular, recommended for hearing Nous'che?

Jazzaferri

Bones wrote:

Hi Jazza,

What do you mean when you say 'flat'?

Thanks

The line??? Vector??? Plane that the point of the pick moves through is virtually parallel to the strings, not an arc.

Get a 6 x6 tile or thin board. Pretend its the guitar strings and you are chording. If you hit as opposed to even brushing feeling then ther is some arc in your pick stroke and you will get a stronger response wherever the bottom of the arc is. Weird I know but it works for me. LOL