Whose the best at:?????

Teddy Dupont

Jazzaferri wrote:

I recall reading somewhere perhaps in Delauney's book about Django complaining that all the y oung guys wanted to do was to try and outplay him or play really fast, can't quite remember...and then he would start really mixing up the harmony and show em who was boss.

He said some of the young bop players were giving him a hard time, so one day he played so fast they could not keep up with him and after that they respected him more. Django could play blindingly fast but he did not find it essential to do it all the time, only when he felt it necessary as part of his musical creation.

Interestingly, no one remembers any of those "hot shot", "high technique" bop players who thought Django a bit old fashioned and lacking in technical dexterity. Actually, on second thoughts, that is not true. They are occasionally remembered but only as people who played with Django Reinhardt.

Jazzaferri

I'm almost finished my diploma now .....I know I know late starter ....but it did blow me out of the rut I had cut for myself........... I understand first hand your angst. :twisted:

Thanks Teddy

WE are so fortunate here to have people such as you with such a wonderful depth of knowledge.

Bones

Well, I'm not a formally trained musician nor am I a 'naturally' musical person so I don't have any technical or musical skills that would qualify me to comment on this but I will anyway at the risk of looking like a total dweeb .

It seems to me that technicality and musicality are not mutually dependent or mutually exclusive. I think that you could be technically very good and not very musical or you could be musical but not very technically skilled.

But that is not to say that you could not have both. So much the better???

Heck, I wish I could just get one of them, at this point I wouldn't care which one.

From my perspective, they are both very difficult to attain.

Jazzaferri

Bones...your thoughts on this are just as valid as anyone else's......and the most important by far...are you enjoying your voyage...because that is IMO truly the important piece in this whole deal.

kungfumonk007

I'm with you Bones - I'd be happy just having one of them . GJ can be depressing since there are so many monster players even among the hobbyists. I have to work my *&^&^% off just to keep up at the lowest levels.

No one remembers the hot shot bop players because people don't listen to bop. . . I got to start biting my tongue. . . I'm about to get offensive if I don't (going back to my bad "jazz studies" experience at UNC where they pretended no one made music before Gillepsie - actually they only recognized pre-bop music so they could brag at how beneath them it was).

Bones

Jazza, yes the voyage is none-the-less full of joy. I think it is important for me to remember that I still make progress even if it is very slowly. I always think back to when I first discovered this stuff and had no idea how to even play Minor Swing! That really shows the range of the art though. I'm light years from where I was but mega-light years from where the 'state of the art' is. I can comprehend way more than I can actually play and that is both a source of satisfaction and at the same time some frustration.

To even be able to understand how this music is supposed to be done is very rewarding in itself, I just ignore the frustration part and plug away at it.

Sometimes I feel like I shouldn't spend so much time (actually not really enough to achieve the proverbial 10,000 hours) but if I didn't love it (regardless of how much I can improve) I wouldn't do it. I mean, really, why would a beginner in his 50's try to learn Django's classic Dark Eyes solo???

Hey Kung, BTW, I also love Bebop! Just started working on Hot House last night (the head anyway). The tempo is not 'out of sight' and I think I have found a fingering that works. Plan was to work on that more today and then maybe rip off some of your SGB licks after that

kungfumonk007

I probably wouldn't have such a bop aversion if I hadn't gone to a school with a big jazz studies program. If I seem bitter. . . well . . . yes if I seem bitter you pretty much have me pegged :?

There are three major universities near Denver with well respected jazz studies programs, they all focus on bop to a near complete exclusion to other styles and so Denver is just glutted and overflowing with academic bop players all playing the same tunes in the same style all over the area. Now I use these same players in my own band and am extraordinarily happy with them, but I had to weed through a bunch of players to find those guys that had something special - all of them top notch bop players - but not JUST bop players - so I ride on their coat tails as a band leader since they are all such great players that make me look good. So I have a love hate relationship with jazz especially bop. Okay, now I'm just venting, I should go back to practicing.

kungfumonk007

That solo is more of an etude of licks I've been ripping off over the last year so if anyone wants the transcription I can send it to them. Good licks from about 10 different players.

Bones

Yeah, I love bop but I also love GJ and other classic jazz and blues that is the roots of bop.

I think that people who don't appreciate classic jazz and blues are really missing the point of the whole genre of jazz (and even rock/pop). Django and others were the 'pioneers'. No one was showing Django how to do it. Similarly, many other geniouses. I doubt that there any serious jazz guitarists (or other instrumentalists) who are 'in the know' who don't recognize the huge contribution of Django, Charlie Christian and many others to guitar and music in general.

BTW, if I was in one of those schools as you describe I would not have liked it either.

That reminds me, a while back someone posted a cut of Django at I think the Rome sessions where he is playing with piano in the band and I remember thinking that his solo sounded so modern and fresh and would be totally relevant on any level today. I wish I could remember the clip but if any of the Djangophiles here know what I'm talking about please post it.

Hey Kung, got the tab, thanks!

JMHO

Jazzaferri

You want some cool bop licks...get ahold of the Charlie Parker Omnibook. Even though the key is wrong the licks are there or they may even do one transposed to concert key.