"Walk before you run."

Passacaglia

I hope this isn't entirely self-indulgent. Don't really know why I'm posting this, except my hope that it might help another feeling a similar quandary. Just thought I'd share - couldn't be a clearer epiphany, for me.

I've worked hard this past year, almost exclusively on rhythm. As much sweat and as many hours as I've devoted...I've worlds to work on, yet, with rhythm alone. The quandary comes, as it always does, out of a fairly pressing sense of age and mortality, the love of this music and the desire to get at least some of it under my fingers, "before it's too late"; such a thirst is never truly sated, its illusory nature as damning as poor Tantulus in Tartarus.

But it's clear - for me, making no presumptions for anyone else - that there is no getting around it. Ninine Garcia's:

"It's essential to study first to be a good accompanist before becoming a soloist."

Couldn't hold more truth, for this player. What, ten years beside his father? How many others, with a similar apprenticeship? There's so much there, in something that on first hearing, I, probably like many, took for granted. It is clear how much my concentration on rhythm over the last year has helped with what lead I am learning, a very recent first foray - things come much more easily now, that felt alien and difficult before - but it's ineluctable that a cart can't lead a horse.

bopster

Well said, Paul. I can never be a good enough rhythm player.

Jazzaferri

Paul, I think you are in the process of discovering one one the great "truths" of music and particularly improvisational music.

The melody and it's inferred underlying harmony are yin and yang. The emotional expression is created by creating tension by harmonic melodic and rhythmic statements that get resolved to some degree or another. In order to do that one has to "get" the whole deal.

If that real underlying musical comprehension is not there deeply internalized to the point of effortless mastery, then at best one is really just noodling.

One of the most humbling moments in my life occurred a few years ago after a heavy period of study of effortless mastery when I realized how little I could play from the space. I thought I was a fairly competent guitar player until that point.

Since that realization, and despite only having shortish periods of guitar practice, my playing has grown. I hope you made a recording or two of yourself when you started. If you listen carefully to how you played then versus how ou are coming, I bet you hear an important difference.

Bob Holo

I can't even count the number of top players who have told me this exact thing... that understanding the rhythm is a pre-requisite to understanding the lead... how necessary good rhythm is... how much of a joy it is to play with a good rhythm player... how difficult it is to play over bad rhythm.

Another common sentiment from these folks is that rhythm is rhythm... not rhythm with embellishments... not rhythm with tricks or complex turnarounds or other B.S. that draws attention to itself at the expense of the music. Rhythm is a heartbeat, and it's the same with music as it is with people, when the heartbeat isn't steady, the music is at great risk.

Passacaglia

Thank you everyone - it's heartening to hear these things from you. This is a pretty keenly-felt conviction, though doubts creep in, when I allow them, when I take stock of what "should" or "could" have been, in life.

Having worked on it and little else for a year this month, I've gotten better at playing rhythm - but find the better I've gotten, that there's a kind of siren's song to call "good enough" when I know it's nowhere close.

Very much appreciated, everyone.

Paul

Passacaglia

Sorry, for some reason every now and then there's no ability to edit posts, at least not on my end. Just wanted to say,

Bob Holo wrote:

Another common sentiment from these folks is that rhythm is rhythm... not rhythm with embellishments... not rhythm with tricks or complex turnarounds or other B.S. that draws attention to itself at the expense of the music. Rhythm is a heartbeat, and it's the same with music as it is with people, when the heartbeat isn't steady, the music is at great risk.

I find that, too, is a siren's song, all ego. It's been another conviction to just try to provide light, dry, square rhythm - a kind of constant reaffirmation, as I'm playing, exactly what you write above.

Jazzaferri

I am not sure I quite agree with the just plain rhythm deal or if I am going off on a tangent.

When I am in a jam or playing with someone I haven't played with before I have to keep it pretty simple in order to u nderstand what that person is saying and in order for them to clearly understand what I am saying.

Once people have played together for a while, the rhythm can take on a whole new approach, and become a CONVERSATION with the other players.....not an egoistic monolog, but a conversation where everyone leaves some room for the others to have a say....regardless of their role.

I hope Bob can clarify his remarks for me :oops:

Jazzaferri

I would like to add when I am being PAID to play, i will play whatever the person paying wants...in whatever style the person wants....my ability or lack thereof being the limiting factor.

hanear21

I play with Paul regularly and just want to say that his rigorous study of rhythm is the glue (super glue even ) that keeps our little jams together. I've grown to rely on him to keep that heartbeat going and the occasional nights where he can't make it out our group just can't swing as hard.

This is mostly my fault I think! When you have such an excellent rhythm player to lean on, it's easy for me to put my own rhythm practice on the back burner! I'm glad you've committed yourself to it, because I don't know if I personally could. That said, Paul, I'm very happy that you've been exploring lead playing as well. I'm sure your strong rhythm background will make it very easy to transition from one to the other.

Jazzaferri

As Victor Wooten, bass player extraordinaier, author and educator wrote in the Music Lesson

Never lose the groove to find a note (or a chord).

anthon_74

i am going to take a slightly different approach here. I agree that you must be good at rhythm before you tackle lead, but be clear that you're truly waiting to tackle lead because you NEED to improve at rhythm. I remember your playing from last June, Paul, and I don't see why you don't venture further out into lead.
If your pompe' is good (which I remember it being), and you can play all the primary Gypsy jazz chords, considering the fact that too much rhythm "hotdogging" will turn off other lead players anyway, why not start delving into lead ? All the chord substitutions/passing chords aren't even particularly sought after by lead players (as much as a good strong pompe' that is), and again, I remember your pompe being good.
I personally played only rhythm for 7 years before I looked at lead, but not out of some feeling that I should perfecting the rhythm first, but rather because I found the lead intimidating as hell.

That said, if you find rhythm enjoyable enough to keep you inspired, then great. Otherwise, I sure hope you don't feel like you're not good enough yet at rhythm to take on lead playing, because I can tell you right now that you are.

Anthony