Newby to guitar

Hemert

I have to agree that the Rosenberg Academy might be a bit of a stretch if you're a complete beginner but all is not lost. There's a few things you can still pick up from RA:

- go to the "gypsy jazz real book" (located in the forum) and download all the PDFs. All the charts have diagrams for every chord. A good way to learn all the standard gypsy jazz voicings in the context of standard gypsy jazz tunes.

- download all the exercises from the technique course and spend an hour on them daily, with a metronome of course

- start learning the solo for "Honey Suckle Rose" very slowly, bar by bar

Hope this helps!

rob.cuellari

i agree with the posts above! i highly encourage a teacher if you can find one. gypsy jazz is really more of a style that is learned better by trying to mimic the sounds the players you want to sound like are producing. denis' rhythm dvd was really very helpful for me in the beginning, and if you're interested in learning the basics for improvisation - i'd also recommend stephane wrembel's book. it's clear and to the point. if you just do it without questioning why you will progress very fast. all of those questions you have you will be able to answer yourself in due time. (i had my first guitar lesson in december 2006, and i started at 23 years old - so just keep practicing!)

bohemewarbler

Mark,

I found the Robin Nolan "Gig Book" EXTREMELY helpful in starting out in Gypsy Jazz (not to be confused with the "song book" series).

There are lots of standard Gypsy tunes with the chord diagrams shown (showing where your fingers go on the fretboard in an easy access way). Nothing fancy...just the basics that will allow you to play and learn new songs for hours on end. Even if you are a newb on guitar, I think this is where I would start. Learn the chord progression, following the "Gig Book" diagrams, and then go to one of the play-along sites, such as Stephane Wrembel's, (http://www.stephanewrembel.com/) to try to match your sound to the sound of Gypsy jazz being played by professionals. The book isn't cheap, but it's worth it. I would think Michael carries it.

anthon_74

I AGREE 100% with STUART !

As I was reading the posts here, I was thinking to myself how I would teach Gypsy Jazz to beginning guitar player (as opposed to someone wanting shift from the current style they play over to Gypsy Jazz).
Going straight to Gypsy voicings, I believe is NOT the best way to do it for a few reasons. OPEN chords must be learned first in my opinion. They are easiest to play, which is necessary when starting the guitar, because getting your fingers to make chords is really hard when you start, and with gypsy voicings, you add the challenge of having to find where they lie on the fretboard, as well as getting your fingers to make them

ALSO - all the arpeggios are based on open chord shapes, NOT gypsy voicing shapes. If you don't know your E, A, D, C, (minor and major) open chord shapes, then you have less of a frame of reference for how locate the arpeggios on your fretboard.

As far as bar chords go, while you don't play them as often in gypsy jazz, you DO use fundamentals of bar chords in the style (ie - pressing 2 strings at once with one finger, etc).

Maybe I'm wrong, but I simply cannot imagine trying to learn or teach these gypsy chords without the open chord foundation first.
And as far as scales, go, I disagree that you don't need them. Gypsy players use scales alot, even if they don't realize it. In gonzalos how I learned book, there are a few riffs where he's essentially playing a major scale over an arpeggio.

I don't know, I'm curious if there's ANYONE in this forum who learned Gypsy Jazz as an absolute beginning guitarist (or taught an absolute beginner) that might chime in. I don't mean "kind of a beginner like paul (sorry Paul, but I don't buy that you were an absolute beginner when you began. I suspect that you could play around your open chords reasonably well already, and perhaps knew a bar chord).
But literally someone who has NEVER touched a guitar.

Dennis Chang must have taught a complete beginner or 2 gypsy jazz... Dennis, care to comment ??

Anthony
Anthony

Passacaglia

anthon_74 wrote:

(sorry Paul, but I don't buy that you were an absolute beginner when you began.

You're right, Anthony! Probably why some smartass said this:

Passacaglia wrote:

I'm not a total newbie (I played some as a kid).

and

Passacaglia wrote:

Nice post, Stuart. You're right, I think. I take for granted the fact that I did at least play as a kid - while I didn't have calluses left (now, they've become built up, like stone...proud to bear them!), familiarity with a certain feel, cowboy chords and playing rhythm, almost certainly helped my coming back after so long away.

I don't know - I'm going to have to deign to Denis and others with experience teaching in this style. I know one thing that screwed me up when I did come back, is the surfeit of approaches one can find, now...my choice, obviously, to "sort of" pickup different pedagogical approaches, but Mark, for your sake, I'd hate to create or add to any confusion, especially as I have no authority to opine.

All I know is while I did have some knowledge of basic cowboy chords, I learned them a kid and that itself was pretty spotty. It was something like 35+ years before I picked the guitar up again. And when I did, I guess I feel something like what Stuart wisely alluded to - while a bit strange, learning gypsy voicings didn't have to compete with decades playing blues, bluegrass, rock, etc.****

Anyway, I merely mention this stuff, in the hope it might give some encouragement to Mark. Gypsy kids certainly grow up learning this music; they don't tend to play from a Loggins and Messina songbook. As I said, I absolutely do not bear any authority here - but my gut would have to disagree with you, Anthony. If Mark wants to learn this music, I'd say - dive in to this music.

Interested to hear the thoughts of GJ teachers, as well.

****A simple example would be that until recently, barre chords felt wholly more strange than a thumb 6/9, and I never chose them when working grilles/play-alongs. Working the Nous'che material, but also informed from comments made by Denis and others, that barre chords were more common than people generally presume, I do use them sometimes. Thumb chords still feel more natural to me. My personal goal is to use whatever sounds best and whatever supports the soloist best, on the fly, without having to think about it.

Michael Bauer

Anthony--

I don't think anyone said he didn't NEED scales. What I said, at least, was not to get hung up learning them. I have known so many players who wasted so many hours learning every mode in every key, and it's nearly useless for gypsy jazz. Wrembel's upper and lower approach seems more what Django did. And while Gonzalo uses scales a lot more than Django did, I think we can agree that he is a more modern player. A great player, indeed, but not traditional as, say, Tchavolo.

I agree with you about open chords and unaltered chords. They do need to be learned first, and, as I said, some mild relearning (or additional learning) is required at some point, but it is hardly a major impediment. Thumb-over chords are tougher, but I know guys who just play rock and roll bar chords and get away with it.

Learning guitar from scratch in the gypsy style is a daunting proposition. I was simply trying to lay out what the major things were that he'd have to "relearn" if he started with a non-gypsy jazz teacher. I think teaching a raw beginner gypsy jazz would be tough, but thousands of gypsy kids learned that way. I think it seems harder for us because we all came to this from other styles. It's tough to imagine doing this from day 1. But if Mark does it, it will seem normal to him. I think it would be fun to try to teach an absolute newbie this music. But whoever it was would probably pass me by in the first month...

bohemewarbler

Mark,

Here is what Robin Nolan has to say about getting started in Gypsy Jazz. I am not officially connected with Robin Nolan or his products; however, I found his no-nonsense approach very helpful in getting me to play Gypsy jazz quickly. I admit I didn't enter Gypsy jazz as a newby, but I still think it can be done. Here is what Robin says about a new product that he's offering for free and about playing Gypsy jazz and being new to it. And this product is free. (To get this product for free go to his webpage. You agree to use GetResponse email marketing service. According to Robin, Get Response is the service he uses to help organize his data base of subscribers and customers. You will only receive emails from him through Get Response, not other marketers.) Here is an edited version of Robin Nolan marketing his approach to teaching Gypsy jazz:

"Hey - Robin Nolan here,
Listen to me. I know your busy. I can relate.
So let's get straight down to business. You want to learn to play gypsy jazz guitar, and I can help get you started right now...today. Learning this music is within your reach and it can happen much faster than you've thought possible.

I love playing and teaching gypsy jazz guitar, and helping new players join the scene. I want to show you that you can indeed learn this music quickly and that you don’t have to wait till “some day” to get started. I’d love for you to start playing this music and help me spread the word.

My approach to teaching gypsy jazz guitar is all about fast action to get you playing now. You don’t need to learn anything complicated or have any previous knowledge to get started. All you really need is your guitar and your passion.

Hey, this is not brain surgery, right? Just put your fingers on the guitar and start playing."
- Robin Nolan

anthon_74

Michael,

I didn't mean to seem too disagreeable with what you said... I am, in fact, trying to figure out myself how I would teach a complete beginner gypsy jazz, as I am a guitar teacher by trade. As it is, I teach Rock, and, quite frankly, I can't imagine trying to start someone on gypsy jazz as a beginning guitar player, perhaps because I didn't start that way.

This discussion is very timely, because I am wanting to delve into marketing myself as a gypsy Jazz guitar teacher, and am very curious about what approaches may be taken to start someone in this style as a complete beginner.
As it is, I base all my teaching methods on how I taught myself, and I started off as a rocker, so starting someone with gypsy jazz presents an extremely unique challenge.
Of course, I mainly teach kids which makes it even more daunting, as their hands are so small, and just getting them to play open chords well is a chore.

If anything, I'm putting extreme opinions out there full on to fuel more discussion on the matter to help myself formulate a plan to teach it.

cheers!

Anthony

marktodd

Interesting. This brings up an interesting topic "Can a new guitarist learn gypsy jazz?" I'll start an online blog trailing my path into gypsy jazz. I'll post notes and recordings.

Michael Bauer

Anthony, you are a bright, thoughtful guy, and I hope you always say what you think. You weren't disagreeable, and I'm sorry if I seemed so. I have a funny relationship with scales. In my classical days, I practiced them 3 hours a day every day. The side of my hand turned blue some days. And I'd love to have that time back, because I think every minute of it was totally wasted. All I learned from it was how to play scales, which is basically a useless skill. I wish every day that I had used that time to pay real music.

Wrembel was working on a new method back when I still lived in Jersey, and I should think to ask him what ever happened with it. I saw part of it at his house once. Then things really took off for him, and I haven't heard a word about it since. He's a methodical guy, and I'll bet it would be really good, if finished.

Jack Soref has a very good approach to teaching improvisation. He's used it at Django in June, and you should ask him about it if you go this year.