Where are the innovators?

Bones · August 2013

Lately, I vote for Gonzalo, Adrien, Les Doigts for innovation (if that is the right word).

Not that I have a complete library of contemporaries.

adrian · August 2013

If the recent "Between Clouds" album by Adrien Moignard isn't innovative, I don't know what is. Odd time signatures, different instrumentation, new repertoire -- it's super fresh.

Also, Bireli!

Ando · August 2013

Wim, my post is what is known in polite circles as "stirring sh*t up." Like Jon, I don't really care about innovation as much as I care about distinctive voices and approaches.

I know the genre pretty well, have hundreds of recordings, always check into it to see what's new. I'm trying to knock out some recommendations for feral players I've yet to hear and to bang the drum for more "innovation," whatever that means, because that impulse is what keeps the music alive and untamed. (By definition, improvisers are always "innovating" to some degree.)

The areas in which the feral spirit can move in music are well-known: melody, harmony, rhythm, form, orchestration, and repertoire. Forget "genre," which is amorphous and only relevant for the marketing game.

<i>How many consider the madness created by Boulou and Elios Ferre to be GJ? </i>

I sure do. Matelot was their father, and like them, he was interested in where the road unraveled.

Wild melodies, feral rhythms, radical harmony, new forms, unusual arrangements, fresh timbres, new tunes. In addition to Adrien, Gonzalo, Olivier, Benoit, and Bireli -- all of whom are fresh in different ways -- I'll toss out

Simone Guiducci
Tcha Limberger
J-P Watremez
Sebastien Giniaux
William Galison
Seth Ford-Young
Caravan Palace (wim, they extend the vamp line of thought and re-orchestrate things -- electronic music is here to stay)

Not that any of this is "better" mind you than spot-on delivery of QHCF chestnuts. To most people, especially young people in my neck of the woods, Django's music is news and probably always will be because it's both wild and elegant. Which is cool.

scot · August 2013

It becomes a more sensible conversation if you accept that there are two different forms of this music. One, the more common and more popular form, is what you might call "campfire" style. We all know what this is and who plays it so I'm not going to waste any time defining it. Then there is all the rest, which started with Baro Ferret's 1949 recordings with Jo Privat - let's us call this form "modern" just to make it simple. Since that time there have been scores of innovators, too many for me to list here (again). As far as I can tell, here in the USA the vast majority of players prefer the campfire style to the total exception (or even outright rejection) of the modern. Paul Mehling has released plenty of CDs full of innovative material, sophisticated arrangements, and superb playing - but here on this forum, there is zero interest. Paul has written many clever and catchy tunes like "I'm Not Impressed" and "Don't Panic" but no one plays them - instead they are playing the old chestnuts. John Jorgenson writes great tunes, one example is "Mirror in Blue" but I never have heard anyone else play it.

It's a lot harder to innovate than it is to play the same old 40 tunes that everyone else is doing - it's a lot of work. It's just not that hard to charge through a standard arrangement of "Honeysuckle Rose". Nowadays you can find good chord arrangements for all kinds of tunes, so it's not necessary to make your own arrangements. I think this kind of thing makes people lazy and complacent, and that's just not the innovators frame of mind.

Now, here's a tune by the legendary innovator and master musician Koen De Kauter. How hard would most of us have to work to figure this out, much less play it?

Shawn · August 2013

I've been struggling with this concept for awhile myself. I recently took darn near a year off of playing to refocus, as I was getting extremely burned out and just plain unmotivated to play anymore. I really enjoy the whole "gypsy jazz" style for the most part, but the stagnant rhythms and crunching pompe of many players just doesn't do anything for me. From a totally personal perspective, I've always favored the Free Jazz movement of horn players like Coleman, Ayler, Kirk and Brotzmann, so I guess my approach to the style is a cross between Free Jazz and Gypsy Jazz, which makes it extremely hard to find like minded individuals willing to play in a similar style...and pretty much excludes me from ever attending any of the many festivals I'd love to attend.

I think without innovation there tends to be some stagnancy, but if people are happy bouncing around to 4/4 and 3/4 rhythms then who am I to say they should change. It's all down to personal taste. However, I do tend to think that because a heavy emphasis is placed on technique and "proper" form in this genre, it might be somewhat limiting itself on style and innovation.

Rant over. 8)

anthon_74 · August 2013

scot wrote:

It becomes a more sensible conversation if you accept that there are two different forms of this music.

You're talking primarily about people who still stick to the general tenets of jazz, but I think some of the great innovators have taken it out of the jazz realm and into the pop realm.

Take Tom Waits for example. If you listen to his mid 80's stuff, you will find strong gypsy Jazz influences.

I think as far as sticking to the standard - Jazz form with trading solos, you ultimately limit your innovation possibilities. Many of the great players of today just seem to be looking at innovation as playing faster and/or stretching the tonal possibilities as much as possible, turning gypsy jazz into bebop.

I'm personally interested in combining gypsy jazz/rock/pop/and folk music as well as encouraging a return to dancing (given that it IS swing).

Aurelien · August 2013

Hello guys ;-)

In my opinion, GJ won't be able to be innovative if you call it Gipsy Jazz

If you are talking about acoustic jazz, it's always moving, as you said LDDH, Adrien, Seb, etc... But I think the most important to my ears is when people are really all improvising...

Maybe one day the rythm player and the bass player will be able to improvise while the lead is chorusing, it will be for me the real innovation ;-)

Aurelien · August 2013

Hello guys ;-)

In my opinion, GJ won't be able to be innovative if you call it Gipsy Jazz

If you are talking about acoustic jazz, it's always moving, as you said LDDH, Adrien, Seb, etc... But I think the most important to my ears is when people are really all improvising...

Maybe one day the rythm player and the bass player will be able to improvise while the lead is chorusing, it will be for me the real innovation ;-)