Where are the innovators?

Shawn

Jazzaferri wrote:

django did some pretty impressive rhythm while playing behind various soloists.....not sure why rhythm has gotten so rigid over the years.

Exactly! I harken back to Django's comping on "The World is Waiting for the Sunrise" from the 1949 Rome sessions as a great example of this. He's playing within the pretty standard 4/4 time signature, but he is comping so heavily it's really driving Stephane's playing to another level itself, and almost sounds as if he's mimicking free form piano comping even while still remaining in 4/4. Maybe what's missing is the average joe's unwillingness to stick their neck out and play something outside the box.

scot

That kind of rhythm playing is incredibly hard to do! That's why no one is playing like that...

AmundLauritzen

Swing music has certain parameters that make it what it is. Furthermore, Djangos swing style further narrows it down.
There is nothing wrong with innovation, but you can only do so much before you take out the very elements that make a style what it is.
I have nothing against that, but as one poster says, it becomes acoustic jazz moreso than "gypsy jazz".

I like the traditional, Django style of playing. That was what attracted me to this music. I was already playing bebop and modern jazz, so I got my "fix" for hip harmonic concepts and other things that gypsy jazz lacks.
So really, I get all the heady stuff, and heaps of it through bebop jazz. So for me, gypsy jazz gets me away from all that and provides a different mode of expression and listening pleasure.

I want gypsy jazz because I want to keep it simple. It's the simple, but powerful, swinging honest gypsy jazz music that really tugs my heartstrings. Like when Stochelo, Jimmy, Paulus or Tchavolo plays. Those who have a powerful sound and traditional vocabulary. I love the waltzes and the more exotic gypsy repertoire too. But these were always an integral part of the style anyway.

In the end I don't really care if somebody thinks it's innovative or not. I hear something and I either like it or not.

I think if one thinks this music lacks something, why not contribute that yourself? I think most players intuitively gravitate towards their muse anyway. Some people are naturally going to be innovative, others are not. In the end, it's all good as long as we're having fun.

Jazzaferri

Excellent thoughts Amund...you put into words my feelings that appear to be similar so well

I love the trad stuff and I love the new "innovative stuff too......plus get my fix of big band and modern jazz and blues as well.

wim

Shawn wrote:

... Django's comping on "The World is Waiting for the Sunrise" from the 1949 Rome sessions

Thanks for bringing that track to my attention! A good one that I missed.. still turning up django gems after about 5 years listening to this stuff

Buco

Maybe better suited question is why is gypsy jazz not evolving as fast like some other genres.
At least at the similar rate and branching off in different directions as jazz and rock did.

But that is happening, albeit again not at the same rate as the above mentioned.
My two best examples are Gonzalo Bergara and Stephan Wrembel.
They are leaving gypsy jazz form behind and going off roaming in different musical landscapes, making beautiful music while exploring wide range of influences all the while staying true to their own language and still have that gypsy jazz signature sound. Stephan less so then Gonzalo but still there's sound of acoustic instruments that we recognize and associate with.
So not an innovation but it is unmistakable evolvement.

And there's Monsieur Perine, another example of how two guys initially inspired with Django, started playing and practicing Gypsy Jazz and took it elswhere:



PRI did a story on them and that's how I found out about them initially:
http://www.theworld.org/2013/06/colombi ... ur-perine/

So it is changing but why not as fast I don't know.
Maybe part of the reason could be that the major innovations and development in modern music that we know came from the US and gypsy jazz always had it's strongest presence in Europe.
Changes in Europe are far slower and more subtle, people usually don't go head on against the established unlike in the US where there's a mentality of taking things further ahead.
You know, pizza makers in Italy are perfecting their quattro stagioni for centuries and then American guys toss all that out the window and start topping their pizzas with chicken, pineapple, bbq pork...ingredients that would be frowned upon by many makers in Europe.
It's usually Americans that shake things up in a lot of areas of life like music, food and lately to my delight beer.
Or my own experience is that I'm originally from Bosnia and on some occasions I'd take some Bosnian dishes to introduce them to my American friends and inevitably someone would comment "you know man this is great but I think _insert ingredient/topping_ would make it even better", while in Bosnia the way it was made hasn't changed in probably centuries and no one ever dared of changing it other then very subtle spicing variations.

So I think soon enough you'll be able to have your serving of gypsy jazz both classico style and with different toppings too.

PS "Classico" album showed up on Spotify, it is sooo good. I love how they mixed it, Adrien towards left, Gonzalo right and with the bass in the middle.

swing68

scot wrote:

That kind of rhythm playing is incredibly hard to do! That's why no one is playing like that...

That, and I think if you were to do it behind a guitar lead you'd be getting some serious evils from the soloist :evil: Would be nice to hear it behind fiddle or clarinet more, though.

peterja

Buco wrote:

Maybe better suited question is why is gypsy jazz not evolving as fast like some other genres.

Jazz and rock are genres. Gypsy jazz is a subgenre.
Jazz evolves. But swing music doesn´t evolve much, neither does bebop nor any other subgenre.

Teddy Dupont

peterja wrote:

Jazz and rock are genres. Gypsy jazz is a subgenre.
Jazz evolves. But swing music doesn´t evolve much, neither does bebop nor any other subgenre.

A valid point that says it all.

Jazzaferri

are we talking evolution or revolution

Django was revolutionary, Armstrong and Bird were revolutionaries.

I believe GJ is evolving, lots of new stuff going on in it....not many revolutions in a lifetime, looking back over history of music.