Selmer on EBAY

Michael Bauer

Well put, Bob.

Jeff Moore

Michael, I don't care what the rules are as long as they stay put.
As long as we know the seller can do this us millions of Ebayers can readjust our risk estimates accordingly. I just didn't know and its a surprise but thanks for the update. Doncha hate it when when you are still learning the rules 20 years into a marketplace?
My experience buying guitars and lots of other stuff on Ebay has been very good and often (with guitars anyway) I'd make phone contact with the seller, but as I say, I never got that kind of "deal" at all and only bought at a max of $350. That was a long time ago though and $350 seemed like a lot and I'd have been shocked if I didn't know what had happened....ie, wasn't able to read Michael H's posts.

I pretty sure there's punishment for buyers who don't pay by the way. I've seen a dramatic drop in seller complaints over the years.

I'm not outraged about the seller, the price, or on behalf of this particular bidder. I'm an Ebayer and want to know how it works. Even there, I'll likely never buy or sell at that level, too risky!
Or maybe I'll just sell now that I understand the new (to me) bidder risks and I suspect the bidders don't. Just kidding.
At the level I use Ebay its been real safe and convenient for things I can't find at all or don't want to physically hunt for.
There's another Selmer for $45,000 on Ebay "buy it now". Maybe that's the correct price. Auction used to mean risks, but I'm not fond of risk anyway, I just like rules to stay the same. I'd be less shocked that someone "stole" a Selmer than I am at changing the game or in my case learning the game so late.
I've only bought really good guitars from you and Michael H and one from Lebretron (special big neck).
I think the way this thing ended hurts you and Michael H.(who are or may be selling a really nice guitars) more than anyone else, because the auction sends a wrong message about the price of a Selmer to those who don't read this thread anyway. I would have recorded this in my little brain as a $13k Selmer if I were'nt reading this thread. On the other hand if someone else is out there waiting for the next $13,000 Selmer, he and his descendants will likely die before he buys it. Something besides the sellers actions were wrong though. That's an insane price though Bob's explanation is the only explanation (about perception of risk) that came to mind. Michael H. said others were waiting to bid but I'd be interested if there's a actual way to bid in one or even three seconds. I certainly can't. I guess its internet dependent or something like that.
I suspect that the seller (poor guy) will get some grief from Ebay, but I'd love to know that bidders and seller could talk by phone and forgive. Even though the stakes on this one were high, anybody buying and selling "that special something" on Ebay deserves predictability that only comes about from enforcement of rules. Those expecting guitars like that at that price will go on hoping forever. Sellers hoping to rachet interest in their special thing by starting at $1 need to learn the trade before selling high price stuff, even if that means some learning losses.

Michael Bauer

Jeff, I don't know or care what the e-bay rules are, but I have enough Celtic blood in me not to care anyway. If a guy wants to sell me something, great, but in the end, if he wants to keep it, well then...he wants to keep it. There's always the next guitar. I am not a rules-oriented guy. I've used e-bay exactly once (to buy), and everything went well. I don't know a single rule, and after 20 years still won't. I just figure if the item isn't in a neutral, e-bay secured location, both buyer and seller have a right to back out at any point. Who's going to stop them?

I think the $45K "buy it now" price is probably someone's pipe dream. Can't blame a bloke for tryin', but he's either naive or inexperienced if he thinks he's going to get that much. Or maybe he'll find an equally naive or inexperienced buyer.

BTW, my friend, how's my old Manouche Moreno, and your family? We have to find a way to meet up.

Xjax

I wouldn't classify the posts in this thread as "outrage" but rather inquiring minds looking to understand how these things work.

Bob's pistol match analogy struck a chord with me. I've certainly sweated a few of my sales and purchases of expensive auction items. This got me thinking that EBay could probably charge sellers a fee during those last seconds or minutes of an auction to extend the end time. When everyone waits until the last minute to put their real bid in, some high bids are often submitted too late. Give the seller the opportunity to pay an additional fee to put some extra time on the clock and kick in the slow motion "Matrix Auction Mode."

Michael Bauer, your point regarding the actual ceiling having not been reached and the auction showing as completed is misleading and your concern about this kind of stat effecting future valuations is a good point. This would concern me if I were a collector.

As someone who has been in hundreds of eBay auctions, I wanted to see how EBay handles cancelled auctions. http://pages.ebay.com/help/sell/end_early.html To summarize it, they'll go easy on you once per calendar year and waive the fees...

"Because we understand that sometimes it may be necessary to end a listing early, you won't be charged a fee for the first auction-style listing you end early (where a fee applies) per calendar year (January 1 to December 31)."

Good night and good luck.

TPC168

Some interesting conversation about the politics and ethics surrounding ebay going on here.
At 25k+, the seller wouldn't have been making out that poorly. There are no percentage consignment fees, so apart from the ebay fees themselves, the seller pockets a good chunk of that.

A couple of questions:
When an auction is pulled at the last minute, are there bids still being gathered? Is the seller aware that he had nearly twice that of the highest ending bid, so say just under 26k? I mean, this is a good price for a buyer and for a seller,who is in need of cash, I can't see a great deal of frustration.

I have no skin in this matter btw. Interest yes, outrage none.

Michael Bauer

If outrage was too strong a word, I'll retract it, but given what I read, "inquiring minds looking to understand" understates far more than I overstated. Let's call it a draw and both go home happy.

I've only bid seriously on e-bay once...and lost out on a plastic Mac that sold for just under a grand. The other handful of things I bought were "buy it now". Generally, if I want something that's hard to find, I want it, and that's that. I'd rather get it than save a hundred bucks. If the price is too high, I just move on. I really don't get the angst of the bidding wars. A charge for some folks; simply irritating to me. Why invest the time and emotion and lose in the end? If it's something I only want if I get a bargain, I probably really don't want it. Besides, the condo is full of guitars, amps, books and records. I don't need any more bad habits.

Anyway, lets cut the poor seller a break. He clearly meant well, but just couldn't risk letting a original icon go at a "good-copy" price. I doubt he'll repeat the mistake.

dennis

i know the owner of the guitar , i think he just made a mistake posting the guitar. from themlooks of it , he posted it from his phone... a very stupid mistake but he s naive that way.

i know what he paid for it, and i know that he spent his life savings on the guitar, he is a full time musician with very limited income, it would be a disaster for him to sell the guitar for such a low price..

again, he messed up by not putting a reserve, but i understand where he s coming from

klaatu

Just goes to show, you need to make sure you understand the rules and the proper strategies before posting anything on eBay, especially something of value like this. It's too bad the prospective buyers lost out, but it's really fortunate that the seller didn't get badly burned by his mistake.

MarkA

Ebay is a different sort of place to be sure. A previous post noted fewer seller complaints lately. This is true, but it is because ebay will no longer give a seller the option of negative feedback. They have been making changes in the past couple of years that largely favor the buyer. If you research auction sniper or auction stealer you'll see how how those last minute bids get made. I have bought and sold a few guitars on ebay and had no problems, but it's not a relaxing experience. Ebay at least let me rediscover a 40's Epiphone Emperor that used to be mine, until UPS lost it over 10 years ago. I wish the owner of the Selmer well.

wim

I've always posted my eBay stuff on $1 no reserve. People send messages making lowball offers, and I just ignore... the price shoots up like a rocket in the last few seconds of the auction. Some tech-savvy people even use bid sniper software that automatically makes their bids in the last second.

I haven't sold a 30k item like a selmer but I've sold a few $1k+ items, without exception they go up to what I expected was the value (and sometimes above what I expected). The seller just didn't know this I guess, inexperienced .. he should have just let it run through!

I agree with Jeff Moore, to cancel the auction like this is wasting bidders' time and the emotional effort of watching an item like this, consulting your budget and finances, etc. It also looks bad now for the reasons Michael mentioned, when I first saw that I thought wow the Selmer sold so cheap?! I think eBay warn you when you have a winning bid that it's a legally binding contract, so why should a cowardly seller be able to cancel the auction at the last minute. I'm surprised to hear that they can do that once per year, without some sanctions or fees!!