Djangomania!

drolling

Pardon my french, but WTF was that all about? The bass player in my blues band just called me up to tell to check this documentary film on Bravo, so I missed the first 15 minutes, but I just finished watching it, and found it, for the most part, to be a pretty scathing indictment of gypsies, jazz, the french... they even made Toots Theilman look bad!

I dunno, maybe I take this stuff a bit too seriously, but the *humor* kinda went beyond 'tongue-in-cheek'..

Anyone else tune in?

Thoughts?

Jack

Yeah, it's been excoriated on every gypsy jazz forum around...when it first aired in Canada some months ago there was a lot of discussion on the Yahoo forum, mostly about the Django as collaborator issue.

For more:
http://www.hotclub.co.uk/forum/viewtopic.php?t=2955
http://www.hotclub.co.uk/forum/viewtopic.php?t=2942

The Yahoo thread went on for weeks, I think, so I'm sure you'll find more there; in a nutshell, though: Kastner is an idiot.

Nick, though, had the best word:
viewtopic.php?t=1164

Still, I'd like to see it! If someone's got a copy, let me know.

Best,
Jack.

drolling

Thanks for posting those links, Jack.

It's clear that Kastner really doesn't *get it*, but I guess I can see how our fanatical devotion to the man & his music might appear to someone on the outside looking in.

Still determined to make it to Samois some day, and after watching that show, I've got one more reason to take that trip to Japan..

Jack

Hi Ted,

I want to make it clear first that I haven't seen Djangomania yet (and probably won't till one of you sends me a copy!), but from everything I've read and heard, it does seem like Kastner gets a lot of mileage out of playing provocateur (I can't find the link now, but I recall a quote from him something along the lines of 'How would his admirers react to hearing their hero was a Nazi collaborator?'). His new project is called "Kike Like Me", which is supposed to be taken as homage to the classic Black Like Me; to me it just smacks of someone rabid for attention:
http://www.playbackmag.com/articles/mag ... ?print=yes

I don't know; he seems to have come down with Michael Moore Syndrome...

Best,
Jack.

scot

No doubt, Kastner does play the provocateur, and he isn't well liked for it, either. He did a similar job on the nutty protesters at the WTO conference in Quebec City and you can believe they hate him. Some of Djangomania is just so much BS. His cockamamie theory about Django being a collaborator is totally without merit. But he is right about certain cultish aspects of this whole thing. Some things are actually worse than he showed. And the highly sanctimonious, like wealthy professional protestors, unreconstructed racists, and mindless djangopaths, among others, need a poke in the eye with a sharp stick once in a while to wake them up to what they are really doing and what they look like.

I don’t necessarily agree with the way he presented certain things – I felt pretty bad for the way some people were portrayed. Some of it was dishonest and borderline cruel. I did not especially like the way it made me feel about myself – “Am I really THAT much of a dork?”

The way that the djangopaths in Japan are split up into factions is now happening here in North America, where some players or groups of players are summarily dismissed by others for not being authentic enough or for this or that other equally banal reason – he does not use the rest stroke exclusively, he does not play/his rhythm is not exactly like so-and-so, etc. And never mind that many of the greatest players in this style didn’t/don’t use Selmer style guitars – Django’s own descendants, for example. Show up at a festival without the right guitar, some of the crowd will dismiss you out of hand – he can’t be authentic if he has a Martin…

OK, I am a curmudgeon this morning and maybe it’s not as bad as all that – yet. But I’m afraid it’s going that way. That would be sad.

Are the guitarists in the attached photo authentic gypsy jazz guitarists?

Cheers
Scot

nwilkins

certainly not - look at those guitars!!!! Man I wish I had a 175

In truth though I would not characterize Babik as a "gypsy jazz" guitarist.
This discussion may lead back to my matrix of criteria theory.

pallopenna

This discussion may lead back to my matrix of criteria theory.

I missed that, but would love an explanation. Great name for a theory though.

-Paul

MichaelHorowitz

nwilkins wrote:

certainly not - look at those guitars!!!! Man I wish I had a 175

In truth though I would not characterize Babik as a "gypsy jazz" guitarist.
This discussion may lead back to my matrix of criteria theory.

Actually, that's not Babik. It's Lousson, Django's 1st son. I would definitely characterize him as a Gypsy jazz guitarist. The few surviving recordings of him are on electric. He's playing Django repertoire with a 60s jazz vibe. But he's using characteristically Gypsy types of ideas and was most likely a rest stroke player. Just look at that right hand! He sounds very Gypsy to me...

More info and audio here: Henri "Lousson" Baumgartner

However, I agree about Babik. He was a Gypsy who played jazz. Not a "Gypsy jazz" musician. Big difference.

'm

Teddy Dupont

Michael Horowitz wrote:

Actually, that's not Babik. It's Lousson, Django's 1st son.

The young guy on he left looks like Babik to me. However, I totally agree with your evaluation of their styles.

MichaelHorowitz

Teddy Dupont wrote:

Michael Horowitz wrote:

Actually, that's not Babik. It's Lousson, Django's 1st son.

The young guy on he left looks like Babik to me. However, I totally agree with your evaluation of their styles.

My guess is that's J.M. Pallen, who was Lousson's very gifted accompanist. He was really hip harmonically.

Here's a recent photo....hard to say:

dennis

wow i didn't know sean connery played jazz guitar!