"Aha!" moments studying gypsy jazz

DragonPL

true that, than the orriginal post left out the dom7-dim correlation also very common....

MichaelHorowitz wrote: »

DragonPL wrote: »

the m6 and m7b5 , just like 6 and m7 chords are indeed same note chords, but dom9 is not.......

wim wrote: »

1. realising that m6, m7b5, dominant 9 were really the same chord

If you drop the root from a dominant 9th chord then it's spelled the same way as a m6 or m7b5. It's often used this way.

wim

Christiaan you've worked with Stochelo a lot and probably know his techniques back to front, can you comment on the below ..

Charles Meadows wrote: »

I found it really cool to see that Stochelo plays his ascending diminished runs as sequential 2 note sweeps using all downstrokes. Made it much easier.

This is really interesting and not something I've ever noticed before. Do you have some youtube or other video example of Stochelo playing like that?

Bones

Wim,

See Hemert's comment on the previous page.

I know at least one example where Stochelo uses all downstrokes on a diminished run (16th note E7b9 arp on Bossa Dorado). I believe that when he uses all downstokes on the same string in a fast passage he does not use a rest stroke on the first one. He shortens the first downstroke (he calls it a 'normal' stroke) and doesn't go all the way thru until the pick hits the next string. I think that this is necessary for speed since the pick would have to travel too far if he used a full 'rest stroke'. This whole thing is too advanced for me so take it with a grain of salt but this is just what I've heard (not that I have incorporated it in my playing).

Jazzaferri

G 9 contains g,b,d,f,a

Bm7b5 contains b,d,f,a

So a rootless 9 chord has the same notes as a m7b5 a major third higher.

Jazzaferri

Use the D,f,a,b you have Dm6

DragonPL

Yes but that's really implied harmony. if you have b-d-f-a it's like you wrote a bm7b5 (half diminished) or dm6. It would be a G9 if the bass line played a "g", some sustained note from previous beat/measure, pedal tone or many other possibilities.
Often in gypsy jazz there's a lot of implied harmonies since the Django -Freddie Green chords are simplified for quick switching, just like with power chords in rock.

Jazzaferri wrote: »

G 9 contains g,b,d,f,a

Bm7b5 contains b,d,f,a

So a rootless 9 chord has the same notes as a m7b5 a major third higher.

Jazzaferri

I am taking about the harmony from a theoretical viewpoint. There is nothing implied in a rootless G9 it is the root Bm7b5 chord.

If we were to discuss the harmony of an ensemble that is a different kettle of fish and then all sorts of factors come into play. Some chord voicings will sound more like one thing with rhythm section solidly stating the root and something quite different with a lot of support on a 5th or b7 or ....etc etc etc.

Freddie Green played in a big band situation and simple rootless voicings were often the clearest way of playing. In a Basie style arranging usually there are 5 voices ...... melody on top with saxes filling in 4 more voices below the melody note within the octave, trumpets repeating top four voices an octave above and bones playing Trumpet lines an octave below. Not much room to wiggle for either guitar or piano.

For many on this forum keeping it simpler makes for clearer explanations.

Jazzaferri

Rereading the first chapters of Hindemith's composition text...one realizes that there really isn't anything implied in the harmony....the sub harmonics created by chords exist and though not easily separated, that is why we hear the so called implied root or fifth or other notes when we play more than one note or even phrases. Funny how the brain works

DragonPL

Isn't all harmony theoretical But that's what I was saying, B-D-F-A is a bm7b5 (or dm6) not a "rootless G9" but it certainly can be substituted for it....

Jazzaferri wrote: »

I am taking about the harmony from a theoretical viewpoint. There is nothing implied in a rootless G9 it is the root Bm7b5 chord.

Jazzaferri

Ahh now I get what you were saying....yes you are very right...easy sub. The fewer the notes taken up the more room there is to solo type of thing.