My Progress in Jazz Manouche

AmundLauritzen

Here is part 2, dealing with the subject of anchoring and wrist movement, as well as illustrating differences between gypsy picking and more conventional picking styles.



Again these are just my observations, and my opinion on what works best for me personally. As I explain in the video, I like to use a moving anchor using the 3rd and 4th fingers, like Stochelo does. But there are many great players using fixed anchors or no anchor(completely free floating hand).

Picking from the elbow isn't "wrong" per se either, because watch Romane play and listen to the sound coming out. He is a true master, and he has developed a technique that seems to come almost exclusively from the elbow. I could be wrong about him picking from the elbow of course, but that's what has caught my attention anyways.

So keep in mind that the principles I promote in the video are what seemed to help me break free from a tense way of playing and start to move towards more technical and musical freedom. They are things I've observed in players like Stochelo, that I try to mimic because that's the sound I'm going for.

So take everything I say as an opinion(not fact!) and use sound judgement.
Again I am happy if this can stimulate discussion around these principles and I certainly would enjoy input, disagreements or agreements etcetra.

Part 3 will be footage illustrating the pick so you can compare the patterns in regards to tempo. I'll have to do some editing for that so it will be uploaded probably later today.

AmundLauritzen

Part 3: Discussing if/how tempo influences picking patterns:

Charles Meadows

Great job Amund. Very insightful.

Buco

I came to believe I can play any piece of music ever written for guitar (save for that crazy chord mentioned in the other thread). The only question is at which tempo? But if I play something at 50% compared to the performance I used as a learning tool, that doesn't mean I can't play the song. I'm just learning Django's "I'll see you in my dreams" with two finger technique. Maybe the only measuring stick may be "can I play at a public performance acceptable tempo". As we all know, many of today's GJ performances can be considerably slower and still be concert goers worthy, so to speak.
But that aside, the point is to play music right, not to be able to play 8th notes over 260bpm? Sure it can be fun to listen to and probably even more fun to be able to play that fast but it's not be all and end all, is it?

So I disagree with you when you say

AmundLauritzen wrote: »

Some of the very demanding songs, I never learned to play faster than about 70% Others I can play at 100%.

You learned a song.

That's not to say you shouldn't have a goal to reach, if that's your goal, to play it as fast as Stochelo. We all need goals, otherwise we can't measure our progress.

Also I wanted to thank you for making these videos. Still didn't have time to see all of them but I will. I did watch the first one, and I agree with what you say there.
If I could critique you on anything, that would be to put more power/attack in your picking. That would put you in the next league up. But as a learning process I do think you're going about it the right way. It looks like you're building a supple wrist first. When you have that, it's easier to put more attack and power into your picking. I was concentrating on attack more but now I notice that on faster passages my wrist can be too tight so I'm trying to be aware of keeping the wrist loose. But that's fixing something, not building it so again I think you're going about it the right way.
I don't know what kind of player you were three years ago but you sound great today, really great.

Cheers,

Buco

AmundLauritzen

Thank you! I appreciate the honest critique, and I'm glad this could spark discussion.
I agree, it should not be a goal in itself to play fast. For me, when I practice a solo playing along with a recording, getting to 100% has more to do with feeling you are done working with it, a sense of accomplishment, than as a necessity for other reasons.

To be able to play fast should not be an end in itself. But IMO, to be able to play at fast tempos, you need to develop your technique to a point where you are completely relaxed, because in my experience, with all the downstrokes, it is just not physically possible to reach a very fast tempo if you tense up. So in a way, that means if you can play fast, you probably have a relaxed technique. Then you can play slow without problems too. I also find that the more I am able to relax when playing at higher tempos, the more powerful I can pick in slow tempos.

At this point, for me, I'm still in the process of collecting enough melodic "pathways", or licks and phrases on the guitar to be able to play something that makes sense no matter where I am on the fretboard. In some cases, I will have finished a phrase only to find myself freeze up because in some cases a musical idea doesn't come to mind right away. I believe that the more vocabulary I get under my fingers, the more this will become automatic, and I'll be freed up to play in a way that is less frantic. I.e I will not be so concerned with outlining every change, so I can focus on making the music breathe. It's interesting that you mentioned Djangos solo on "I'll see you in my dreams" because IMO, it is the measure for good phrasing. It is probably the best example of how to construct a musical statement that develops in a logical way, breathes in a human way, and makes sense from start to finish.

Bones

Great, thanks Amund! Very interesting discussion.

Chiefbigeasy

Very astute self-observations, Amund. Your understanding that speed, while itself is not the goal, does nevertheless indicate your mastery of certain aspects of technique. While I haven't had enough time in yet to master more aspects of my own technique--hence, my pointed questions to you about it--I have the benefit of age and a lot of listening experience to feel comfortable about saying something meaningful while soloing.

I mentioned a thread I started here about phrasing like early Django. I am attempting to quickly absorb that vocabulary so that I don't lean on the cool jazz of the late 50's and 60's or the high energy fusion jazz of the 70's that I grew up with, not to mention the folk-rock, blues, and even flamenco I have absorbed and played in my career. There were some great observations in that thread by other players, including a great filmed excerpt by a New Orleans musician (my home town, by the way). He and others pointed to what Django was listening to when he was developing. Among the prominent names was Louis Armstrong. You can hardly go wrong listening to any of Armstrong's music to see examples of beautiful melodic solos.

To that end, I am concentrating on very early Django material to learn solos. Not only are they more accessible for a newer player GJ player like myself, but they contain beautiful melodic solos that rival the original melody of the song itself. If I were to offer any advice myself in this regard, it would be this: now that you can play fluidly and swiftly, force yourself to slow down and look for melody in your solos. I would think in a manner so as not to "frame" a chord change, for example, with appropriate notes; rather, I would be guided by my search for a melody over those changes. Sometimes, you even have to stop playing entirely, for a moment, and sing/scat something over the changes instead. I suggest listening to the queen herself, Ella Fitzgerald.

While you're musing on that, let me pick your brain on technique again. I'm impressed with how quickly you've mastered speed, especially as it points to your observation about playing in a relaxed way. But I'll refer back to what I mentioned early on when I originally asked you for some tips about building technique. I see your good picking technique as flowing from being relaxed, as you say, resulting in a very fluid and efficient use of energy. I've been working through exercises in Micheal's Gypsy Picking book. I wonder if you did exercises as well specific to improving picking that helped you develop your technique.

Thanks, again, for posting your comments.

AmundLauritzen

Chiefbigeasy wrote: »

I wonder if you did exercises as well specific to improving picking that helped you develop your technique.

Thanks, again, for posting your comments.

I did the technique curriculum at the Rosenberg Academy for the first six months or so, until I felt that I had a basic grasp of it, so I could move on to using the solos themselves as technical exercises.
Those technique exercises cover the most common picking patterns in the style, according to how Stochelo plays. So I did minor add9 arpeggios up and down the neck chromatically with predominantly downstrokes, the typical Django open string chromatic scale, diminished arpeggios in 8ths, 16ths and triplets, etcetra. But what the technique exercises all had in common was that they were material you would find in solos. So every exercise was a preparation for a situation that would actually happen when you play.

I personally think that is very important. And it is a good strategy too, to make your own technique exercises from challenging material in a song you want to learn. I still do that when learning new songs that are particularly challenging: isolating the problem area and making it a looping exercise so I can drill it into my muscle memory.

I also worked a lot from the DVD "In the style of Stochelo Rosenberg" that Stochelo recorded with Denis Chang. Stochelo demonstrates many licks that are great technique builders. And there is a section where he improvises on a selection of songs. That's a goldmine for musical material.

Buco

Keep in mind that my suggestion comes from a view of seeing you in a rarified league of players which I think you reached so it's something I noticed that could be improved to push you towards elite circles which you are on your way to get there if you keep plugging away at this rate.

Jehu

Hey Amund,

Awesome videos. Very inspirational!

Quick question: You mention flattening the pick as opposed to attacking on an angle as one would in other styles. Do you do this for rhythm as well?