Django and Bach

Shemi

Hi all,

I'd like to start by saying hello to you all as a new member. I'm very new to gypsy jazz am hooked! I'm based in Wales so if there are any posters local to me please say hello... I would love to find some local people to jam with. :-)

Although being new to this genre, I have studied music for a long time and studied cello originally, but now my time is mainly spent with the guitar. One of the things that struck me when I started looking into this style was how a lot of the ways in which Django created his music resonates with Bach's music, which being a cellist I know well. The abundance of arpeggios with chromatic approach and enclosures, even the typical ornamentation like mordents, etc, reminded me strongly of the Cello Suites.

Is it known how much of an influence Bach might have had on Django? I believe I have heard he was a fan of his Organ music.

On a side note, Paul Tortelier was a young cellist in Paris at the time playing in cafes and such and I wonder if the two ever came in contact.

Anyway... Sorry for the ramble. :-)

Al Watsky

I think Django had "big ears". Sure he listened seriously to a whole lot of music. If you know the classical guitar literature you can hear elements of that in his playing as well. If you hear Bach and you have a mind like Django's I think its safe to say that it will become a part of that well spring.

Shemi

Hi Stuart, thanks for the welcome.

Indeed, I think it is safe to say Bach was a master of improvisation. He was known as the greatest improvisor on the organ in all of Europe at the time, and a story goes that a famous French organist came to compete against him (which I think was a common thing amongst organists back then) and on hearing Bach warming up, promptly left town!

I don't know the classical guitar repertoire very well Al, but I am sure you are right in what you say. :-)

Arcticguitar

There's these quotes from Django in Horowitz's unaccompanied Django
"The harmonies, that's what I like best of all in music: there you have the mother of music.... That's why I like J.S. Bach so much, all his music is built up on the bass". (p.127). and "[My favorite pieces are] Ravel's Valses Nobles et Sentimentales... and Bach's Toccata and Fugue. His music Speaks to my hear and brings tears to my eyes." (p.105). So there's that.

I think pretty much every single musician after Bach was influenced by Bach in some way. He laid the foundation for everything. But, you can take this opinion with a grain of salt because I am a huge Bach fan so I hear him everywhere. Speaking of the cello suites one of the things that I hear a lot in Django's improvisation is the way he weaves a single note line into a sort of melody and accompaniment. Or a foreground and background kind of thing, where the line is all single notes but creates an illusion of accompaniment. There's lots of that in Bach's solo violin and cello pieces. And Django does it too.

kimmo

Django, Grappelli & Eddie South: Improvisation sur le 1er mouvement du concerto en ré mineur de J S Bach

mandocat

In an interview by David Grisman in Mandolin World News, Stephane Grappelli was asked if there was anything he regretted recording. He said that he didn't like the recording of the Bach violin duet. His comment was something to the effect that it wasn't good to "swing the classics".

kimmo

Really? Seems a bit odd as a reason, after all Grappelli and Django recorded together (among others) themes from Tchaikovsky's Pathetique, Listz's Liebestraum, Grieg's Danse Norvegienne and Debussy's Reverie.

Teddy Dupont

Typical of the slightly silly and inconsistent things Grappelli said from time to time

spatzo

Django is simply extraordinary in Bach's recording, I wonder how he prepared the accompagnement for that tune probably from a 78' record but maybe just hearing the others playing the piece. Grappelli and South did the job but in fact nothing special came out - of course the guitar background is The Thing!

Jazzaferri

I am more with Stephane and Eddie on this one. NOT ALL but a fair bit of JS's works wouldn't swing well to my ears.

mandocat

I apologize for not having the exact quote from Grappelli, so the inconsistency may be my fault and not Steph's. He did mention it as one of his least favorite pieces but I can't remember the exact wording of his follow up statement.