Arps Practice Regimen Suggestions

Jazzaferri

Repetitively doing anything over and over the same way is not musical and I believe creates roadblocks to creativity in the long run

However you choose to work your stuff break it up rhymically melodically and both.

Not to say dont do it straight from time to time either.

Buco

Ryan Rhea wrote: »

the melody often "distracts" me, if you will, from rigidly outlining chord shapes.

I think I know exactly what you are talking about here.
I came to GJ with very little formal musical training, almost none. Been always "by ear" player so when I stepped into jazz and GJ improvisation I let my ear guide me as to where the line "wants to go" while listening to the harmonic development in the background, whether it's a band or a back up track. But without being aware of which chord I'm on, this can get me into trouble and when it does I'm left to "searching" around the fretboard.

Staying within the scale of the key is OK if that's where you're at the time skill wise and nobody is going to shun you for it but you should be conscious of it. @dennis told me exactly that when I improvised in front of him once at Django in June.
It was impressive from his side because he told me exactly which note I played that didn't fit the chord I was on because I played the scale of the key.

The mastery, I think lies in creating meaningful melody and outlining the chord changes at the same time. That's when you, as they start "telling a story".

But I'm still having trouble being aware of the chord changes. /edit: I'm aware of the chord change but not aware which chord it changed to/
My answer to this problem?
As of recently, during practice, I'll slow the song down to the point of being ridiculously slow so that I can try to develop an idea but keep my place in the tune.
While improvising like this, if I feel that my melody ideas are coming to a stop, I'll have time to think what chord I'm on and will just land on 3rds and 7ths of the chord and maybe do it with one or two approach notes or play an arpeggio of the chord or just use one the few licks I came up with.
It is very helpful for me to practice very, very slow like this. While I'm still far from having this same skill at tempo, I could recognize the improvement immediately the next time I went to the band practice. I don't know how much better I sounded but I felt so much more comfortable playing solos.
I really feel that slow practice, as slow as it takes to be comfortable (sometimes ridiculously slow), is the key for me at this point.

When I practice arpeggios only, I'll try to come up with an etude that follows the chords in a descending/ascending way. As someone else said, when I'm done with one arp over the chord, I'll try to look for the closest note of the next arp and play them in this descending/ascending manner.
One useful thing that this does, is that while I'm thinking of the fingering that makes the most sense for the next arp, it makes me cover the fretboard in a more complete way.

Buco

Ryan Rhea

Thanks, Buco! This is a very enlightening post and so nice to hear from someone in the same boat.

Blanketing the changes with the key is something I've always done since I started playing, and now trying to get used to listening intently to what's underneath while trying to play something decent on top is tough. I can do it some of the time, but sooner or later I'm going to zone out (which is actually where I want to be in Rock) and miss some changes.

Jazz is much more cerebral and structured than I'm used to. It's almost irritating. I don't like to have to think too much while playing, or even necessarily having know where I am in the progression cycle, for that matter. Just having the freedom to generate ideas without having to puzzle piece them into the progression, on the fly, with chords whizzing by at lightspeed is so nice. But with Jazz you must always be listening intently for the next chord or modulation (modulations... now that's an ass kicker! ). I guess that's why some people count when playing? If I did that I'd never make it through a single lick. lol! It's a total sea change.

But I am really enjoying the journey. I've learned chords that I can't even pronounce, let alone explain how I can get my fingers to contort to make them (how did early guitar players even decide that some of these shapes were usable in the first place? haha!).

Your idea of slowing it all down is brilliant, though, and I plan to do just that. I have all manner of software and stuff in my home studio that I can use to record and/or slow down existing backing tracks, etc.

Speaking of that... I found a great backing on YouTube for Minor Swing. The rhythm is not traditional, but it's slow enough for me to play over and the video part calls out the chords as they are being played. It's been a huge help to me for practicing arps. Now, for actually practicing Minor Swing more as it's meant to be played (especially for playing along to the rhythm part) I use this track. Any other track suggestions would be welcome!

I am currently working on a solo version of Nuages using voice leading. I've learned so much from this exercise and plan to do this with more of Django's ballads!

Thanks, again, for your great advice!!

RR

Buco

I have a Joe Pass DVD where a journalist asks Joe what's he thinking about when he plays, is it chord changes, arpeggios, licks...all the stuff that we talk about here and that you'd expect a jazzman to use while improvising? Joe says "no man, you just play. All of that other stuff you do during practice, but when you go on stage you just play".

I'll go check out the dvd again and type out the exact transcription of it.

Buco

It's a little different than what I paraphrased above but I think that the gist of Joe's answer is there.

From "The Genius of Joe Pass":

interviewer:
your improvisational talent is enormous. Do you feel that you are creating on the spot or is it premeditated improvisations?
Joe:
No I don't think it's premeditated, in fact I know it's not premeditated. You can't think and play, if you think about what you're playing the playing becomes stilted. You have to just focus on the music, I feel, concentrate on the music, focus on what you're playing and let the playing come out. Once you start thinking about doing this or playing that, it's not good. What you do, I think, it's like a language, you have a whole collection of musical ideas and thoughts that you've accumulated through your musical history, plus all the musical history of the whole world and it's all in your subconscious and you draw upon it when you play.



edit: @Ryan Rhea You mentioned about zoning out when you play rock, that's exactly, I believe, what Joe is saying here as well.
So your goals are the same, only difference between you and Joe is the amount of musical ideas accumulated and how musical your ideas are.
You also have to think that while jazz is structurally more complex than rock, majority of jazz is based on chord patterns, chord progressions, maybe even more so than rock. So, again, once you've accumulated enough of these musical ideas, you can recognize these chord patterns and recall the ideas that you know are going to work. Once you've truly mastered these ideas and own them in the truest meaning of the word, you can mess with them on the spot, twist and turn them rhythmically and musically without even thinking about it and you're improvising in the most authentic way.

Ryan Rhea

Thanks, Buco! I made it sound like I was suffering or something. lol I truly am enjoying the journey and I'm picking up so many cool things by studying this music. For whatever reason, GJ seems more accessible to me than standard Jazz, which I also love but found somewhat difficult to wrap my head around from a guitar playing standpoint.

I've been here before, many times. Learning something completely new takes time and patience. Fortunately I have the time each day to dedicate to it and I definitely have the patience. So, like you said, it's just a matter of absorbing as much of the music as possible at this point. Which is the fun part.

RR

Bones

Thanks guys. Those are all really great suggestions but my original question was more about practice rather than performance. I'm just practicing the straight major, minor, dominant arps and trying to get the various positions under my fingers but looking for variations that are maybe more musical and fun to play (over and over and over..........)

Thanks

Jazzaferri

I heard a band last night that had a rock guitarist and bassist trying to play jazz. Not only does jazz have different harmonies a lot of the time it has a 2 and 4 strong beat feel as opposed to and 3. Hearing a bunch of rock lines with the wrong feel on tunes like So What was odd to my ear....5/4 in Take 5 was hilarious. It so didn't work with rock phrasing.