Right Hand Question

Rob MacKillop

I'm beginning a study of the traditional right-hand technique for Gypsy Jazz guitar - always do a downstroke on a new string. I'm enjoying getting a feel for it, and I can sense why it is done that way. However, there are sometimes musical reasons why I would want to do otherwise.

Here's a passage from Django's classic 1937 solo on Minor Swing, which I'm learning.

Dj1 by RobMacKillop, on Flickr

Line 1, last bar - it starts with a full-beat rest, then half a beat rest. My instinct is to start with an upstroke so that the down strokes have the accents on the beats. I keep going through this and the next bar alternating down and up.

Line 2, bar 2 - D, U, D - then there is a string change. I could start the second string with a down stroke, but it kind of upsets the groove I've got going of downstrokes on down beats. I want to play an upstroke on the second string.

I'd like to know what you would do here.

It also brings up the question of inequality of stress between down and up strokes, and strong and weak beats. Should my upstrokes be as strong as my downstrokes? If so, where have the strong and weak beats gone?

Rob MacKillop

Apologies for placing this in the Welcome area of the Forum. Hopefully a Mod will place it where it should be?

Buco

I couldn't find time now to go over what you wrote, not that I'm anyone with authority on the subject, but it sounds to me you are on the right track understanding the importance of accenting the right beats rather than following the rule of downstroke with a string change. Yes that should be a guideline but not a gospel.
Everything you wrote makes sense to me, keeping the groove and accenting the strong beats.

I think Joscho Stephan said in the workshop on the same subject, i hope I'm not misquoting the guy, sometimes he thinks of it in terms of triplets and makes sure the first beat is always strong regardless of string change.

Jazzaferri

I spent several years converting (or trying perhaps) to orthodox rest stroke and I find myself more influenced by the phrasing than strict adherence to the downstroke on a string change rule. And I still up stroke if playing 3 notes on 3 different strings at speed a lot of the time. Oh Well

As long as it sounds right It is right no matter how I get there.

SR. would likely just use 2 downstrokes in a row. At the last bar in the first system

Rob MacKillop

Cheers, lads. I'm new to this style of guitar playing, but not new to making music. I'd like to see what makes this great music tick. Good to see ideas about technique and musical stress.

Jazzaferri

@Rob MacKillop ...fwiw....when I decided to convert, I spent several months playing nothing but downstrokes to break up old patterns. Seemed to help a lot

Bar 1 starting last note ....down bar 2 down up down down down up.

Bar 4 down Down up down up

Bar 6 down up down down down up down up

I find it makes quite a difference in the sound of the phrasing rather than alternating.

Rob MacKillop

So, it seems to me that it's different strokes for different folks, within an overall agreed notion of downstrokes as often as possible. It's all new to me, and I find it fascinating.

Charles Meadows

I think Angelo Debarre, Stochelo Rosenberg and others brought up in the style end up having a lot of upstrokes on accented notes (like the first 8th note in a measure). Kind weird to get used to for me. But there is a lot of variation. Starting in measure 45 I know Angelo would play DUDUDUDU for those eigth notes. But I've seen Stochelo do DUDDUDDU for parts like that.

Rob MacKillop

Thanks, Charles. Good to know what the greats would do here.

Jazzaferri

In an interview with Stochelo, he does say he uses an upstroke to start a phrase once in a while but he generally uses more downsteokes than many others

It's what he grew up with

I think what is most important is to get the phrasing, attack and articulation right however you get there.

@dennis, Dennis Chang did a video called in the Style of Stochelo Rosenberg or some such. Part of a series. Interesting to watch.

Rob MacKillop

Well, after listening closely to the original recording, it is fairly clear that Django is playing a heavy downstroke on that first note of that chromatic line...