'Gypsy' strings on a laminated archtop?

murrayatuptown

I have a 50's ES-135 with laminated maple top...and unfortunately/fortunately a humbucker a previous owner cut a bigger hole for when replacing a P-90. it sounds nice plugged in, but acoustically is just...not right...was not meant to ring like a carved archtop. Kind of dead...I've had it looked at a couple times and 'that's just the way it is'.

I had a thought this past week about some things I read regarding minimal overtones on manouche guitars, and remembered one of the things my local repair guy/luthier said was 'if you want it louder, you could put acoustic strings on it'...I dismissed the idea at the time.

Anyone know what http://www.daddario.com/DADProductDetail.Page?ActiveID=3769&productid=114&productname=EJ83M_Gypsy_Jazz__Ball_End__Medium__11_45 might sound like in such a situation?

Thanks

kungfumonk007

hmmm. . that is a clever idea - let me know how it sounds, I might try it too.

Russell Letson

An 11-45 set strikes me as pretty light for an archtop, especially a laminated-top model. I wonder whether by "acoustic strings" your repairman meant, say, phosphor bronze roundwounds rather than the light nickel flats that many people use for electric jazz. I know that the besetting sin of stores trying to sell old acoustic archtops is stringing them too lightly. My archtops wear at least 13-56 sets.

But I'm not sure that any string set is going to give an ES-135 much of an acoustic voice. That's not what the instrument is designed for.

Buco

Lenzer Fisoma has a set of 12s. That's I think the thickest gauge of strings still designed for gypsy jazz guitars.
They stay fairly bright even after a few weeks.

Jazzaferri

You might look at the Newtone GJ strings if michael still has them. They were noticeably higher tension in the 11 sets than either Argies or Galli SS.

So much so they put enough of a bow in the neck that I took them off after a few minute tryout on my Dunn. Scary.....

murrayatuptown

Yes, he did mean regular people's phosphor bronze acoustic strings. Pretty sure any manouche style strings there will need to be ordered.

Oh, the perils of changing string guage...

When I bought it in the 80's it came with ancient flatwounds that I think were 15-60. I took it somewhere to be checked out before I stored it (moving). First thing the guy (I learned when I returned) did was cut the old ones off and put something ridiculous like 7's (ok, probably 9's) on it...Might as well have been 7's because they bottomed out in the old fret slots and it was unplayable. Pretty sure the 3rd wasn't even wound. The shop had the word Doctor in it's name...a Quack, apparently. I hadn't asked him to change them.

Off to a bad start, which was actually a good thing because I met a neighbor who played guitar & offered to take a look at it. Turns out he did string instrument restoration work for the Henry Ford Museum, Edison Institute & one other pretigious place I forgot the name of.

He put a new nut on it and 10-46's with on it and recommended GHS Compound Nickel 1800 rollerwounds (11-52) if I wanted heavier ones that weren't as dead as flatwounds but more subdued than the conventional 10-46 electrics.

So I was a bit hesitant about the 44 in the 52 cut slot...

I think Jazzaferri's experience with the Newtones does sound a little scary, but I am talking about a 'tank', not a spruce or cedar top.

I guess I leave it the way it's supposed to be & think about what else to try. I never really liked the Compound (double layer on wound strings) 1800's after two sets. OK, but more pronounced difference between plain & wound ones. I guess the reason is obvious. Maybe 3 of the 4 are double wound. I could be wrong.

Thank you.

pickitjohn

Never know until you try, phosphor bronze acoustic strings sound Great on my 1948 Epiphone Zenith. Much better then the Labella Silk & Steel I tried, took them off in a week.
STRINGS ARE CHEAP!
What kind of

50's ES-135

you got?

You could of had it correct when you said...

but acoustically is just...not right...was not meant to ring like a carved archtop. Kind of dead...I've had it looked at a couple times and 'that's just the way it is'.

pickitjohn

Found a Interesting article to share...

All About Archtop Acoustics

http://www.guitarplayer.com/gear/1012/all-about--archtop-acoustics/12942

Gives a nice history and the evolvement of the Archtop

adrian

Hey, I once borrowed a friend's archtop and put Argentines on it (I forget whether they were 10s or 11s). Here is the result:

Al Watsky

I had Argentines on a 1934 Epiphone Deluxe . I set it up like a Selmer. 6/64ths on the treble side 8/64 on the bass. I liked the sound, clear and with less bass and a smooth high end, I was using a pick. I didn't think it was worth continuing to string the guitar that way , It was somewhat less powerful but sounded good.
A 34 Epiphone likes a set of 12's or 13's , I believe I was using 11 gauge Argentines. It was fine. Intonation good.
These acoustic arch top guitars sounds better with phosphor bronze on them. Louder, deeper, better. If you want to experiment you can do no harm by changing strings. Archtops are usually 25.5 inch scale. A selmer type is a longer scale so its different ,but you can try it out , it couldn't hurt.
These later guitars, ^, as above are more lightly constructed than earlier arch tops. The light strings will produce more volume on the modern guitars.
For me it was about the feel. I wanted the bend ability of Argentines as I was playing Balkan and Eastern European styles on the guitar.
It was fine.
After owning several French guitars I find it unnecessary to torture my American arch tops with the French strings.
I stick with Phosphor Bronze for the acoustics and Flat wounds on the electrics.
On a short scale plywood arch top like an ES125 I don't see the need to put the Savarez on there. Unless you just want to try them out as an experiment . I would go with a set of D'Adarrio 11's with a wound G. its their set EXL115W and works very well for plywood arch tops or other electric semi hollow guitars.
A plywood short scale is not a very powerful acoustic guitar. Never was never will be. I've worked on a ton of them. Hell, I worked for the company that made them.
They aren't intended to be loud acoustically , they are intended to not be loud so they can be amplified with less feed back than a solid guitar.
I'm tempted to put a set of the D'Add 115W's on on a Selmer type just for kicks. They are in the same general gauge range as the 11 set of Savarez but half the price. I would think that the alloy would sound very different on an acoustic guitar , but experimenting with strings is interesting and cheap.
Don't forget the LaBella copper wound strings. They are worth a try as well. Very old school, similar to the Savarez in some ways and less expensive.
Strings ! They keep your bridge from falling off !

murrayatuptown

Thanks, all.

Pickitjohn-

1956 ES-135 (evolved from 125-to 130-to 135 with fancier details Mine has trapezoidal inlays in a mahogany neck including the 1st fret; kind of looks like a Les Paul neck).

Al - if you worked for Gibson in Kalamazoo, you might have known Orrin Foslien (now in Minnesota). Gibson let him have access to the factory if he needed tools for his museum restoration work at the Henry Ford Museum, et al. He was my neighbor.

Adrian - thanks for the video. There is no head on the player, and I thought it was Adrian Moignard...I saw a Youtube video of him playing a very orange archtop on a couch where he commented it was loud.

I haven't been happy with the GHS Compound Nickel 1800's. Someone gave me some Fender flatwound stainless steel ones and I thought I'd try them next, but was worried about fret wear. Of course they do no hard 'While My Guitar Gently Sleeps', which it does a LOT of. (Tired joke).

I think I'll try some Martin acoustic strings I already have because they are the most radical departure from normal.