Vibrato

wim

Matteo wrote: »

What if the teacher is Tchavolo and he tells you to play from your heart? What's your answer? "No thanks, that was not quite what I had in mind. How could that possibly make me a better musician?"

Honestly it wouldn't matter who gave this kind of advice. A good player is not necessarily a good teacher (and vice versa). Tchavolo is a fantastic player but after seeing Les Fils du Vent my impression is he would probably not be a great teacher.

If I'm not playing from the heart anyway, feeling distracted or whatnot, then simply being told to do so is not going to make it magically happen. That's just not how inspiration works.

And that's certainly not how vibrato technique works. Django would have put in the hours of practice just like Stochelo, Joscho etc obviously have ..

More likely the teacher heard something not quite right in the student's vibrato, but couldn't pinpoint what it is he didn't like technically, and so he didn't know how to describe the solution. So he suggests go away and read this poem that he liked, so as to change the subject

Actually it is not too uncommon for guys to be able to play something this way but unable to explain how to do it. You can see this for example in Stochelo's dvd from DC, he explains something picked this way or that way, and then when he actually plays it that's some other way completely different..

Jehu

Jazzaferri wrote: »

There is a lot of technique involved in a good vibrato. Probably some stepped logical development exercises would be helpful. I wonder if the right approach is to start slowly and get control of the amplitude first and then build speed and or better to set one speed and build amplitude.

Comments?

Is there an ideal speed for vibrato? I have seen a study of a number of sax players vibrato speed and that varied between around 4.5 cycles per second to 6.?.

I know it's a different style of vibrato, but a long time ago I took a bit of cello from the principal cellist of my city's symphony, a very accomplished player and teacher. The way he taught it was to set a metronome to something reasonable (say, 60) and subdivide the beat with the vibrato. First in 2, then 3, 4, 6, etc. With practice, you end up with a beautiful vibrato and great control over its amplitude.

As for speed, he'd argue that it should be in tempo (i.e., a subdivision of the beat of whatever piece you're playing)... but again, different genre so maybe that's not so relevant here.

Matteo

Wim wrote: Tchavolo is a fantastic player but after seeing Les Fils du Vent my impression is he would probably not be a great teacher

That's funny, I got the exact opposite impression! I guess I'd really like someone to tell me to stop worrying so much about the right technique, equipment (guitar, strings etc) and knowledge of harmony and just make some music with what I've got. To listen to the chords of the waves rolling in and play those chords on my guitar. To express my feelings about all the "good things in life, love and, sometimes, sadness too". :-)

Wim again: Actually it is not too uncommon for guys to be able to play something this way but unable to explain how to do it.

But wouldn't that suggest that they arrived at their technique in a subconscious manner rather than from practising in a structured and deliberate way?

Jazzaferri

@Jehu the classical sax equivalent to that is taught at 5 cycles per second. 75 on the 'nome and 4 cycles per beat. Perhaps because it's often used in sections keeping the vibrato at one speed makes it easier for a group to lock in the vibrato.

I'm kinda with your teacher, I like to have my vibrato speed fit the mood.

wim

Matteo wrote: »

That's funny, I got the exact opposite impression!

Wow... well, I guess different approaches to teaching work or don't work for different kind of students, depending on their attitude.

But wouldn't that suggest that they arrived at their technique in a subconscious manner rather than from practising in a structured and deliberate way?

Possibly! An interesting point.

Paulius Volkovas

There is a bit too much esoteric stuff in this thread.
In my opinion vibrato is a skill that must be practiced and developed. It will not happen without practice and some research.
Its like a rest stroke or tapping or any other technique.
I think it would be best if we could share some constructive advices to develop it.

Appel

And this is why I try to just stay out of these discussions. One person can hear another person's call, think for days about the question, try one's best to articulate as clearly as possible a helpful response ... and it is ignored, or dismissed, or even, as here, disparaged.

But that is just how it is - we all need to find our own way. I'm sorry that I and the others who have written their thoughts out here couldn't help you, Paulius, though I do wish I'd spent my own time another way. I will remember your response. Good luck.

Scoredog

Paulius Volkovas wrote: »

There is a bit too much esoteric stuff in this thread.
In my opinion vibrato is a skill that must be practiced and developed. It will not happen without practice and some research.
Its like a rest stroke or tapping or any other technique.
I think it would be best if we could share some constructive advices to develop it.

There was nothing esoteric in my advice unless you think baseball is esoteric.
I could try posting a vid if that helps

Buco

Seriously Paulius, did you only read the bit about poetry reading?
I mean there's half a dozen clear and very precise explanations on how to go about it. Until reading this thread I never even thought practicing vibrato could be as structured as practicing scales. I would always pretty much sit down and try to shake my wrist while pressing the string. Now I can actually do something with a little more sense to it. I did last night and will do tonight again.
Which brings me to @Appel whenever I play a show, if I meet one person that appreciates what I/we did, it makes it worthwhile to me and wanna do it again.

Jazzaferri

Other than the odd snarky comment, I think a number of people have put some serious thought into this and I value their opinions. Whether I agree, disagree, or am unsure of what I think, I find the discussion valuable because having made the choice to engage it forces me to think carefully about the subject.

Thanks to all who participate. It's what makes this forum what it is