Developing a better sense of time

Russell Letson

I've heard the metronome recommendation for decades and have to say that it's always been a hindrance rather than a help for me. The click or flash is a distraction in a way that, say, a bass player or drummer never is. Nevertheless, I have decent (not perfect) time and have held down the backing function in a number of groups (not GJ but across swing-straight jazz-country-folkie repertories). My particular problem might be connected to another disability: I can't count while I'm playing, at least in the sense of knowing how many bars into a structure I am or on what beat an accent goes. I can figure those things out off-line, as it were, but it's like counting on my fingers. When I'm playing, it's all feel. Fortunately, I've backed up lead players with excellent internal time, and if I start to speed up, they give me the slow-down signal and I do so. But that doesn't happen often.

slowlearner

This thread reminds me of a story I heard years ago about Bluegrass Legends Flatt & Scruggs. To internalize their timing they would start playing a song together in the back yard and then walk around the house in opposite directions and see if they were in the same place when they each reached the front yard.

bopster

@slowlearner - Love that story!

Buco

My straight jazz teacher always emphasizes practicing with metronome on 2. Both for 4/4 and 4/3 count. Says "it's very important". I do it occasionally but I'm still not buying "very important" part.
What do you guys think?

Jazzaferri

Seriously practicing with 2/4 timing significantly alters ones feel and phrasing. Did it for four years while doing my jazz degree. Swings more IMO but that is a personal preference I suspect.

I just got Miles Longo's DVD on jazz rhythm which takes timing away from even that standard. I will have a different perspective in a few weeks once I have digested I suspect.

Appel

@Jazzaferri - somewhere recently in this forum you mentioned Hal Galper - I've been waiting for an opportunity to thank you for that reference, I didn't know Galper's playing or teaching before you mentioned him, and I really love the way he thinks and writes.

His article on playing in half-time is very interesting. I have always been suspicious of working with a metronome on 2 and 4 - though I certainly have practiced that way - but I could never put my finger on what bothered me. I did have more success practicing with the click just on 1 and counting or feeling the quarters.

I think his idea about feeling a tune in half-time - counting the beat on what would be 1 and 3 - is very interesting. He's got a point - and it's not simply about counting the first and third quarters; he seems to advocate literally halving the pulse, shifting one's rhythmic concept of one's repertoire entirely.

Applying that idea to rhythm playing ... putting the click on 1 and 3 and really considering those beats as the pulse might help a lot to lock down the basic Hot Club rhythm guitar style. I don't think that would be distorting Galper's idea too much.

This complaint is going to sound absolutely insane to almost anyone who bothers to read it - but - what has always irritated me about most metronomes is that the click is pitched similarly to a snare drum, which almost forces us to apply it to the 2 and 4. The usual finger-snap sort of noise just doesn't make sense on 1 and 3. I would love a metronome that gives a nice, deep, bass-drum-like "thump" (and I tend to not enjoy practicing in front of a computer, though I'm trying to get over that). I suppose it'd be tricky and/or expensive to build such a sound into something that is supposed to fit in your pocket or your guitar case.

Jazzaferri

My Tempo app on iPad has a number of options. One of which is bass drum snare. .

@Appel I am glad you are enjoying Galper's thoughts and his playing. I think he is one of the really good minds talking about music. He is the one who made me aware of Miles Longo's concept of jazz rhythm....which makes 2/4 or even 1/3 seem kinda European classical. That and getting away from thinking in bars and beats (I think I have that right). His exercises entail singing specific drum sounds for different rhythmic pulses and my wife is probably thinking its time to call the men in white coats.

Longo's is all about polyrhythms, the African side of jazz and the feel of the underlying pulse. I kinda knew a bit about it before but I feel like I've gone from throwing paper airplanes to sitting in the cockpit of a CF 18. It's gonna take me the rest of my days to get completely comfortable with all this. But it will be fun.