Finding the Way In

Chiefbigeasy

I've left this title a little mysterious on purpose, mainly, I think, because I may not be sure what I'm asking. I'm not looking so much for the "Aha Moments" as noted in another discussion.

With just two years of gypsy jazz study under my belt, I'm still looking for my way in to confident soloing. My own sound and rhythm are pretty solid, and I've memorized a number of Django and Stochello solos. I can play nice solo versions of "Tears," "Nuages," and have even managed to memorize the waltz "Indifference" at a pretty good clip. I can obviously improvise better over "Minor Swing" and "Minor Blues" than "All of Me," however, so that's where I'm stuck at the moment. I'm looking for the way in to click with me.

I'll give you an example. Michael's book Gypsy Picking was my "way in" to getting an authentic picking sound (as I suspect it was for many others as well). I'm looking for something similar when it comes to improvising, or at least, feeling comfortable around the fretboard over the changes.

I've tried several approaches. I've memorized the classic solos for "Minor Swing," "Minor Blues," "I'll See You in My Dreams," and portions of other solos for "Honeysuckle Rose," Lady Be Good," "All of Me," and a number of other tunes. I've tried to suss out the underlying arpeggios in these solos and have been occasionally successful in creating a few phrases of my own and connecting them over changes.

I've dabbled into books and videos by Stephane Wrembel, Yakov Hotter, Denis Chang and others. I've been trying to figure out if the approach should be more song-specific or attempting to take in overall knowledge of the fretboard. I tend to fall back on a good ear and can find my way into some nice melodies of my own over changes, but I think that gift can be a crutch or an impediment to advancing to the next step.

I don't think I or many of us here will catch up with Amund (see his progress videos--amazing), but I do have a couple of hours a night, 4-5 nights a week to do this. And, by the way, I'm serious about this fact: given my age, this will be the focus of my musical studies for the rest of my life. But, there is a sense of urgency. I don't have a lot of time to waste "noodling" around. That doesn't mean I don't get a great deal of pleasure whenever I play "Nuages" or any other tune I know for my or others enjoyment. What's the point of playing music, after all? Yet, I do want to continue to progress.

So, brother and sister players, does any of this sound like your early struggles? I'd be interested in hearing about an approach, practice regimen, teacher, book, video that helped you open the door, to find your "way in," so to speak, to this particular next level of playing--soloing.

Scoredog

My guess is you will get so many answers you will have more questions than when you started.

I personally find whole solos tedious and a way of continuing to be un-original. We all relate to things differently so memorizing a bunch of entire solos may work for some, but not for me. Small snippets whether they are ones I create or ones I really like when I hear someone else play is what has worked for me. I too have only been playing this style a bit over 2 yrs. and am in my mid 50's so I understand the sense of urgency. I also have arm issues so we have that in common.

The other side of this is you can explain where you are but hearing where you are is way more important to get a read on what might be the best way to suggest how to improve. Then again you may be ripping and I'll have no suggestions.

Hemert

Next three videos in my Q&A series will answer all those questions! Don't worry, the doubt and frustration you're experiencing are quite normal.

Jehu

I look forward to those, Hemert. I must say that I am really digging your video series so far.

Chiefbigeasy

If that's you Christiaan, thanks so much for your comments and for your wonderfully concise videos. They straightforwardly answer so many questions so simply and directly. I look forward to your new videos.

Hemert

Yes it's me haha. Great that you like the videos!

I know exactly where you're coming from. I actually started to study guitar because I loved the sound but also a little to prove a point: you don't need 30 years and you can start after 30 and still reach the highest or at least a very high level. I'll copy/paste the text from a Facebook post I made last month. Hopefully it will inspire/convince you to keep going:


"...Since I'm pretty much free in the summer I have decided to sink some time into a little project to support the Rosenberg Academy with a series of free YouTube videos.

Every week I get mails about guitar technique problems or improv questions from people learning gypsy jazz guitar. I always answer them via mail as best I can but I do realise that a video would be much more useful.

As some of you know I actually started studying guitar in the summer of 2011. Before that I could play chords and (bad) rhythm but I had no technique and no sense of any notes or licks on the neck. I put in about 4000 hours of practice the past four years and I'm now at the halfway point between cover-your-ears-noob and jaw-dropping-creative-wizard, which is to say I can jam with anyone with confidence to about 300 bpm and sound very reasonable 80% of the time.

Since it's been only four years and starting after 30 I remember how I tackled problems. You know all the technique problems, doubts, frustrations you're dealing with? Yup, so did I and still often do! And I will deal with them for another four years and another 4000 hours to reach the grandmaster level most of us strive for.

I can use all the mails I have already to get this thing started but if you have any questions about an issue yourself, either reply in the comments here or send a mail to [email protected] and I'll try to come up with a series of videos in which I give practical solutions. Just pure no nonsense ways to overcome guitar problems, no magic involved..."

Buco

I'm glad you mentioned noodling in a positive light @stuart which is often thought of as a waste of time when it comes to getting better on your instrument. When someone asked Kurt Rosenwinkel at the master class about his practice regiment he said he never had one, he just played a lot every day. Than he corrected himself saying that only as of recently he does a warm up routine and some exercises he designed himself like playing a pentatonic scales but on every third note go a 4th up to a new scale and start that scale from it's 4th note and so on until you make a full circle. Talking about a mind twister.
Buy anyway, mindless noodling maybe a waste of time but by noodling if you mean improvising over changes that's anything but a time wasting.

crookedpinky

Wow, brilliant post Stuart.

anthon_74

This is the formula that helped put me "in" so to speak - 1) focus on ONE song. 2) Make sure your arpeggios are fluid and easy over the changes of said song in all positions. 3) take all your phrases and licks, and practice, out of time/tempo, connecting them to each other, essentially creating your own original solo/phrase etude. 4) Create and master 3 or 4 (of your OWN) phrase etudes, using some similar phrases/licks/ideas in each one, but mixing and matching. 5) Create an extra few options for the final 8 bars which tend to be more difficult.

Also - Try these concepts when creating your phrase etudes - Stay in the same zone of the fret board; Do the opposite - Jump from zone to zone over each change. Pick a phrasing technique such as enclosures, or the harmonic minor scale (if in a minor key), and do it to death in the solo.

Finally, throw it all out and just practice soloing over the ONE song.

I can't over emphasize focusing on ONE song. It will help all of your other songs. I believe the key is creating phrase connecting ideas of your own, rather than learning others ideas, as it forces you to figure out how to connect one idea to another.

Cheers,

Anthony

Jazzaferri

@stuart nailed it. If you don't hear it in your head, what you will go to most likely are familiar patterns. Arps scales and the lot are not the language of music although bits of them are included. They are exercises so that one doesn't stumble in technique.

I beleive that other than a few, very special to you, solos, learning a lot of whole solo's is counterproductive to artistry. One can still get there in the end, but I beleive it actually takes longer to find ones own voice that route.

TO CLARIFY WHOLE SOLO's

If a tune is say AABA form and the solo is say 3 choruses or 7 choruses long that is what I mean by whole solo. Learning a chorus or a section that really speaks to one, well I do that all the time.

Jazzaferri

@Buco I felt it important to post separately on this. There is no such thing as mindless noodling. That process is how you practice letting go of your ego and becoming a conduit. Dizzy Gillespie said on many occasions, that you can't play jazz from your ego. It has to come from somewhere outside of you and flow through you. Most of the great improvisers hVe made similar comments.

Personally, while I do spend time on disciplined focussed practice for technique, I beleive that unconcious noodling is the most part of learning artistry. In my week of studying with Vic Wooten he emphasized that many times. He used the TV but any distraction works. If you have I tolerant friends try doing it while being part of a discussion.