Django and music theory

Teddy Dupont

Here are some quotes from people who actually knew and played with Django:-

LOUIS VOLA - " Django did not read music but had ears like an elephant"......Also referring to the session Django had with the Paul Baron Orchestra, he said "He (Django) listened to the orchestration twice and then played it as if he had known it all his life, though he had never heard it before."

ANDRÉ EKYAN - "Of all the musicians I have ever known, Django is the one with whom I have exchanged the least number of musical ideas but with whom I get along best from a musical viewpoint."

STEPHANE GRAPPELLI - "The most amazing thing about Django was his harmony. But he instinctively had knowledge of harmony."

GERARD LEVECQUE - Referring to his time at the Conservatoire "I still remembered the classical things we used to play there and Django used to accompany me without ever having heard the piece before. It was incredible. He never knew how to read music, but he perfectly understood the music of Debussy.........."

CHARLES DELAUNAY - "The joy of savouring, analyzing or marshalling notes was not for him a problem to be resolved on paper, but an edifice in sound which builds up inside oneself. It was the very art of sound, not an arithmetical arrangement of black and white notes..... a magnificent vision which he himself was the only one to experience and which disappeared without trace."

DJANGO REINHARDT - When asked whether he could understand music " No but the music, she understands me"

The Charles Delaunay quote sums up Django for me. He did not need to understand music notation or musical theory, he was music.

T1mothy

topics like this fill me with frustration because I live in a place where I know literally nobody else who can play this music. And since I myself cant I ve been just playing by myself and honestly that has gotten me to know some music theory (diatonic harmony, ..) and a quite good deal of technique but I still cant play over minor swing changes. Im trying to really be able to name all the notes on guitar. On the other hand this intuitive learning is so much faster than the (hows the opposite?) cognitive I feel. So I constantly worry I do stuff wrong (also because there s nobody around to prove me wrong. Except for my rather disappointing results). One is told its about phrases you like from others, arpeggios, scales. 2 do the same yet only one gets there and I feel like I could be simply the one who won t get there and that really discourages me to think I simply dont have the capacity to do it especially because I have great love and passion for jazz music and willingness to spend THE time with my instrument. sorry for venting under this thread..

Lango-Django

Stuart, to your list I would also add

- he knew how to play a bit of violin, though we don't know exactly how much: likely he was limited to the "easy keys"?

-he knew most or all of the common chord progressions which would have been used in several types of music: tzigane, musette, and possibly some French and American pop songs

- from the Michael Dregni book page 15, we know that as a young man, Django watched intently, attempted to emulate, and may possibly have received tuition from virtuoso gypsy guitarists including Auguste "Gusti" Malha and Poulette Castro.

**********

Given the fact that Django didn't learn to read and write French until later in life, there seems to be little likelihood that he ever desired or attempted to read music.

But it would seem to be extremely unlikely that he didn't understand music via an oral tradition passed along by both the musicians he desired to emulate (eg Malha and Castro), the musicians that he played with professionally (eg dance hall accordionists or his brother Joseph) and musicians in the gypsy community that he knew as colleagues but didn't play with very often but may have exchanged ideas with (eg, the Ferret brothers)

While we can't know for sure exactly what this oral tradition would have consisted of, it would seem likely that there was some kind of chord-naming and arpeggio-naming system probably quite similar to the one that gypsy musicians still use today, whatever that is.

It would also seem likely that structural pattern ideas such as "verse" "chorus" "intro" and "coda" would have been named and used by these musicians.

Will

woodamand

I find an odd undercurrent in this disucssion. What if we all woke up tomorrow and found new evidence that Django was say, a great sight reader of sheet music? Would that somehow diminish his playing and stature?
Please note I am not trying to offend anyone here, but would that bother you? And why?

NylonDave

Hey @Teddy Dupont.

You have at least made it clear that we are all talking about the same Django. All those quotes are ones which I recognised.

But maybe you could flesh out whatever point you are trying to make with specific examples of how reading these quotes empowered you personally as a musician.

For example I could quote from Hal Crooks How to Imporvise on Conrad Corks Harmony With Lego Bricks, or just note that singing and recording a solo really taught me.

For example this.

CHARLES DELAUNAY - "The joy of savouring, analyzing or marshalling notes was not for him a problem to be resolved on paper, but an edifice in sound which builds up inside oneself. It was the very art of sound, not an arithmetical arrangement of black and white notes..... a magnificent vision which he himself was the only one to experience and which disappeared without trace."

How was it that after reading this you were able the next day to change your way of working ? What were the results, are you still working like this ? What problems were solved, new abilities discovered etc ?



D.

Buco

@T1mothy I sent you a PM so that I don't clutter this thread with off topic stuff.

woodamand

stuart wrote: »

Not for me, no, I would just be surprised because it doesn't fit with what we know about Django. A lot of guitarists can't read music even today and regard people who can as some kind of voodoo magicians.

Ha, that reminds me of the old joke: How do you make a guitarist blind? Put some sheet music in front of him!

NylonDave

@woodamand I have been writing a thread about just that, honest.

http://www.djangobooks.com/forum/discussion/14582/led-s#latest

D.

(apologies to Buco and others as my personal definition of off topic as a trifle odd).

Shemi

woodamand wrote: »

I find an odd undercurrent in this disucssion. What if we all woke up tomorrow and found new evidence that Django was say, a great sight reader of sheet music? Would that somehow diminish his playing and stature?
Please note I am not trying to offend anyone here, but would that bother you? And why?

I sometimes feel that some folks think that playing music from a page somehow makes it less expressive or something. I suspect some people conflate "readers" with "people with bad ears" and seem to feel it diminishes their musicianship. Kind of the antithesis of the snooty classical musician who looks down on musicians who can't read. To me reading is a skill, improvisation is a skill... Both require good ears, sensitive musicianship and some level of technical ability to do well. Bach was one of the greatest improvisors of all time, yet he knew his theory and explored theoretical ideas in his music and still created some of the most beautiful music ever written. His music is cerebral and from the heart all at once.

So to answer your question, it wouldn't bother me at all, his music would still be as beautiful, evocative and masterful as before.

Jeff Moore

wooddamand
I've always believed that playing well would involve as few cognitive steps or translations as possible. If I'm thinking about a "dominant chord" or B flat, I'm simply trying to do to much at once, and my playing should suffer.
The story about Birelli makes me happy. I'm proud not to "know" much, not because it isn't useful to communicate, but not useful to playing an instrument in popular music, especially improvised music.
I've always had the expectation that if someone really knows how to communicate about music, they won't play at a high level. The two will interfere with each other.