Django and music theory

Charles Meadows

It's interesting but frustrating at the same time. I remember back in college math always came very quickly. I was able to solve intuitively, for example, problems in certain areas of calculus we had not been introduced to yet, having "internalized" basic concepts. Some of my premed friends were jealous haha! But when it comes to music it's the opposite! I've seen dudes who have less technique than me and who practice less internalize things and "learn" without thinking about it it. That does NOT "come" to me. That's why I find this all so fascinating. And while I agree with Christiaan that the technical skills are available to those who practice I am sure there is a large component of natural ability, which I'm sure Django had superhuman amounts of...

Lango-Django

I've never formally studied it, but for our purposes I take "music theory" to actually mean more like "analysis of musical conventions".

Different cultures have different accepted musical traditions, e.g., the Indian scale can have as many as 19 microtones which our ears can't even distinguish, while many Asian cultures use a 5- tone scale.

Music theory doesn't attempt to say which scale is "best" or "right", it merely catalogs them.

Our western tradition, of course, is the 12-note chromatic scale, which can include myriads of smaller scales within it.

Beginning way back with the invention of the spinet/clavier/piano, musicians found that they could play more than one melody at a time.

And clever composers like Bach found that they could use counterpoint melodies to create pleasing combinations of notes, which gradually evolved over many years into a more chordal style of music.

Our western scale allows for more chordal sophistication than any other tradition that I'm aware of, and to me jazz music theory is mostly about chords... unless you're a drummer!

Which chords would be "best" for a given situation, like say, playing a Christmas carol?

Music theory doesn't attempt to answer that question... it merely notes that there will be a lot of different answers depending on whether you ask the bluegrass guitar player, the gypsy jazz guitar player, the big band guitar player, the folk guitar player, the flamenco player, etc. etc.

Bones

I'm not sure exactly what depth of theory is involved but after doing a bunch of transcribing of his solos I was really impressed by how he definitely nails the chord changes. I guess if one can do that then that may be all the theory one needs?

Jazzaferri

Actually Will, jazz theory does teach certain scales go well in certain harmonic situations.

Lango-Django

You're right, Jay, that's true about jazz music theory, because our jazz tradition tends to be more concerned with complicated chords than other musical traditions.

I guess the point I was trying to make is that other musical traditions are equally valid even if they don't share that interest in complicated chords.

Who was a "better" songwriter, George Gershwin or John Lennon?

Music theory can't tell us that.

But it can describe the chord patterns that each one used.

Jim Kaznosky

Jeff Moore wrote: »

Jim Kaznosky
I agree with what your saying mostly. When you say "it is certainly interesting to ponder how much players know about theory". Can we say what part of Django's music shows his grasp, or not, of theory? I guess I don't know what music theory is or does. I've always suspected is was a term that legitimizes an abstraction. Like if you understand theory, maybe you will "understand" music, yet music is perhaps not something you can understand, any more than you can understand a lake or a mint julip. You can move it along, create new ideas, but does one really understand music any better even if their involved in making it? Mostly musicians look to an audience or a paycheck for validation. You certainly wouldn't be able to test your theories except by what you or a crowd likes.

Certainly. What I was ultimately trying to say was theory i attempts to explain this THING....like language (as aptly pointed out by others). Lack of understanding the "words" for these things does not mean that they don't understand the THING. They've got a different way of collecting their thoughts to understand and to ultimately use that THING at a very high level.

Bones

In my limited experience (no expert) he didn't use scales nearly as much as arpeggios (or licks like the pseudo chromatic runs for example). I've noticed the use of the harmonic minor scale quite a bit (i.e. Dark Eyes solo) usually descending (ascending with a 7b9 arp). Rarely a major scale (but I could be wrong). Stuart, can you think of a good example of the whole tone scale/lick off of the top of your head (I'm curious since I'm just starting to be interested in exploring that concept). Thanks

Jim Kaznosky

The intro to Nuages, for one.

Matteo

Harlem Swing (1937)

klaatu

dennis wrote: »

Bireli only knows super basic chord theory ... You have to use very specific vocabulary with him.

I had a similar experience with Paulus Schaefer at Django in June a few years back. I asked him a question that was very basic theorywise, and he was baffled. Then someone suggested, why don't you teach us a solo for such-and-such a song, and he proceeded to give us an awesome lesson, gypsy style. Played a phrase, then went around the circle having each of us play in turn and correcting us, then adding another phrase until the entire solo was built.