French virtuosos - how they became this way?

Jazzaferri

When bird was a young pro,me got smoked at a jam session.

Over the next nearly 3 years he practiced 10-12 hours a day, 7 days a week.

Good luck.....it's a tough way to make a living.

Russell Letson

Music isn't a footrace, but there can be an athletic dimension to it, and athletic (that is, purely neurophysical) ability has, in turn, a genetic or in-born aspect. Some of us will never have the coordination or neuro-muscular abilities to match the fastest/most-accurate performers, no matter how hard we practice. Which is not to say that we must suffer a loss of musicality. Billie Holiday famously had a limited vocal range, but nobody complains about her artistry.*

And even if one has X level of inherent athletic ability, there is no guarantee that it is going to develop at the rate to which one might aspire. I've been playing for about sixty years and hope to achieve solid mediocrity before I croak.

* Note that I am of the don't-play-so-damn-fast-all-the-time school, which is related to the turn-the-effing-volume-down school of sound reinforcement and the don't-drown-everything-in-hot-sauce school of gourmandry. Both of these are branches of Old Fart University, Fort Stick-in-the-Mud campus.

Bones

Russell "hope to achieve solid mediocrity before I croak". Ha that's my goal too!!! It took a while for me to figure out that this isn't the kind of thing one can take up late in life with any delusions of grandeur but having fun on the journey nonetheless!

terrassier

Having success in other areas of life has helped me get comfortable with being below par on the guitar........If trying to be great was my goal then I would have put it on the fire ages ago

Jazzaferri

Now that the athletic component and the necessary effort to get that to the highest level has been discussed........go the the melody versus scalar thread.

Is the goal technique or artistry.

rafapak

Buco wrote: »

It does not come easy for anyone, that's for sure.

As noted, playing with others, especially better players than you, is probably the best thing you can do for yourself at this point.
You're plateauing, it sounds like, and you need to do something other than your routine to move further. Having a better player next to you as a carrot to chase sounds like a good way to break through the plateau.

It would probably help to stop practicing for a couple of months altogether.
Give your brain a chance to sort things out. Even don't reach for the guitar for a couple of weeks. It'll be refreshing once you do.
Then play daily, but instead of chasing your technique goals, just play, work on repertoire.
If a professional career is what you want to get to, you should be able to pull a lot of songs from your hat on demand...maybe about a hundred? If you can't, that'll keep you busy for a while.

Lastly, you don't need a monster technique to have a successful career even in the niche genre as Gypsy jazz. Look at Robin Nolan. He found a path through the commitment and hard work both musically and marketing himself well.

in my opinion Robin Nolan is very good rhythm player. this is probably why people want to play with him

Buco

Well my old jazz guitar teacher always said the reason he's not starving as a musician is because he can accompany well, not because he can solo well (which he can very well).

Jojo

@Russell Letson That's a mighty fine footnote

Daveyc

Perfect practice makes perfect, which is life long. I need to figure out how to use what I have stored and am learning into a flowing expression that swings and moves people. Then the only way to move people is get out and that is what I find to be very important (and hard for me). But we need a solid foundation to go out there and there are your endless hours of study and practice as your muscles and memory appear dormant rest a bit then it comes to you when you least expect it

adrian

jimbo978 wrote: »

I wish there was an Adrien moignard video were he's playing terrible. Or just "normal" (again, talking only about technique) Haha. But there isn't! The earliest videos of him are from 2005.

Fun fact: the documentary about Alfonso Ponticelli (Gypsy Jazz Odyssey) has footage of a young Adrien Moignard jamming at Samois in (probably?) 2004 -- and Adrien doesn't sound particularly great. Timing isn't particularly good and tone is not particularly pleasant. Sounds like a normal, motivated guy starting out.

I just watched it again. For those of you who have the DVD: the scene starts about six minutes into chapter 5 and has Adrien jamming on "Them There Eyes." Sebastien Giniaux and Mathieu Chatelain make cameo appearances.

(I bring this up not for the sake of delivering a "gotcha!" to Adrien -- in fact, he's my favorite modern-day gypsy jazz player, and the only reason I know about this video is that I'm a huge enough fan that I collect Adrien videos...! )

When first I saw that footage, I was very inspired. We were all beginners once!

Adrian