Three Ring Circles stealing from 'Duet' album?

Jez Tan

Check this out dudes: http://www.robickes.com . This guy has a band called three ring circle who played a pseudo bluegrass thingy, and i was at 1st amused that they were playing 'Made in France' and 'Isnt She Lovely' from the 'Duet' album of Bireli and Sylvain Luc (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NAQNz92Q ... g%20circle)
It was cool to see them playing it on streaming video, but they have included those 2 songs on their CD (http://www.threeringcircle.com/index.php?p=Home), which I feel was totally just them playing the same arrangement on different instruments, anyone has got comments about this? Like, did they credit Bireli and Sylvain's wrk for their renditions? And I tried posting msgs on the robickes.com bulletin board but they simply didnt post up my msg at all. Hmm...

Jack

I haven't listened to the tracks-are they total reproductions (like so many people do with Django solos)? If so, the sad thing is that all their fans seem to single out those tracks as the ones they really like! If only they knew...

His bio mentions he played with Grisman-maybe he turned him onto the Bireli stuff. Unless it was the Oak Ridge Boys.

Best,
Jack.

Jez Tan

Have u watched e video link i posted? They are how they played it on e cd I guess, there r snippets of e songs on e website too. I mean, I just hope they credit those guys who are already underexposed, and not use ppl's songs and arrangement as a tool to garner attention for themselves. And to copy 2 songs directly off the 'Duet' album without any credit due... such a violation of my favourite guitarists work, in my opinion. Haa, hope they have the balls to post my msgs on their board, wonder what's holding them back?

RKatz

This band is not strictly my sort of thing however I think the video of them playing made in France is great, the mandolin player is perticularly good, with an excelent right hand.

frater

I'm sure the guys paid their dues in the CD's credits (otherwise they' d at least changed the title of "Made in France"!). Probably they didn't answer you being pissed off someone was questioning their integrity: we're talking cowboys after all! Anyway, the lap steel guitar player is too good to believe. I play lap steel: I can assure you Bireli's stuff is not exactly easy to play with a bar!

djangolin

The lap steel player (more often referred to as a Dobro player in bluegrass) is Rob Ickes. He's a monster player, probably second only to Jerry Douglas on the Dobro, and is multiyear International Bluegrass Music Association Dobro Player of the year. But he certainly doesn't limit himself to bluegrass and is very competent into other genres as well. His primary gig is with the successful bluegrass band - Blue Highway. The mandolin player is Andy Leftwich who plays a mean fiddle for bluegrass giant - Ricky Skaggs. Both Rob and Andy have solo recordings available as well as numerous session credits.

Jack

djangolin wrote:

The lap steel player (more often referred to as a Dobro player in bluegrass) is Rob Ickes. He's a monster player, probably second only to Jerry Douglas on the Dobro, and is multiyear International Bluegrass Music Association Dobro Player of the year. But he certainly doesn't limit himself to bluegrass and is very competent into other genres as well. His primary gig is with the successful bluegrass band - Blue Highway. The mandolin player is Andy Leftwich who plays a mean fiddle for bluegrass giant - Ricky Skaggs. Both Rob and Andy have solo recordings available as well as numerous session credits.

I don't think anyone here is questioning the fact that they're good musicians, but I'm still curious about what you all think about them appropriating someone else's arrangements (which was in the original post). To a certain extent I imagine we're all guilty of it-Django's Minor Blues or I'll See You in My Dreams intros, for example-but it seems that within the genre these things are at least recognized. Does anyone see it as a problem if more 'popular' groups appropriate entire arrangements from lesser known gypsy jazz bands without attribution, when many of their listeners might not know that it's not an original?

frater wrote:

I'm sure the guys paid their dues in the CD's credits (otherwise they' d at least changed the title of "Made in France"!).

Has anyone actually seen the liner notes to confirm this? Sorry if I seem irritated by all this, but I've gotten so tired of bands that have little to do with the style latching onto Django's name while having no real connection to his music...on the VERY rare night I hear anything Djangoesque on our local jazz station, it's usually Bucky or Russell Malone at best...

Best,
Jack.

pallopenna

There is a posting on http://www.threeringcircle.com/index.php?p=Biography

that there are reworkings of tunes by Bireli Lagrene.

-Paul

djangolin

In general I think it's a good thing for a genre when someone from another style covers the songs of the genre, especially when it's a less popular or less well known genre. Just look what the Rolling Stones did for African-American blues artists when they started covering artists like Muddy Waters in the 60's. Those folks who are moved by, or care about, the music will track down the original artist and buy their stuff too. Half my CD collection has come from those kind of purchases.

Jack

Yeah, in general I agree...I was just in a bad mood the other night. Really what I was thinking of wasn't so much bands like Three Ring Circles, but those bands that use the 'gypsy jazz' or 'Django' connection in their promotion but then don't have anything to add beyond including Minor Swing in their set list. I've definitely found on gigs around here that many people have a skewed idea of what to expect when you say you play gypsy jazz...for most it seems to mean you've added a violin, or that you play Dawg stuff.

Best,
Jack.

pallopenna

Jack,

I think I know what you're saying, although I like a lot of Dawg music (and Tony Rice ain't too shabby!). But taken from another perspective, if people are exposed to GJ through Dawg music, say, then that can only be a good thing because it should increase the probability that they'll venture into the actual Gypsy Jazz realm eventually. I think (of course, being wrong is a minor hobby of mine). So when your band plays, even if the audience is expecting something else, if they stick around to listen, they'll learn something, and hopefully enjoy it and be interested enough to pursue it further. I would think that this is the way in which a lot of specialized information gets spread. So keep playing! And maybe paste on a Grisman-style beard if you have to...

-Paul