Similarity / influences between Gypsy & other

AndrewUlleAndrewUlle Cleveland, OH✭✭✭ Cigano GJ-15
in Technique Posts: 541
Is it just me, or does anyone else when listening to players like Angelo DeBarre notice a similarity with Austrian/ Bavarian/ Alpine zither playing such as by Anton Karas? I'm thinking specifically about the waltzes and the strong use of vibrato.

There's also similarity on occasion between gypsy and klezmer, especially the clarinet playing.

It would be interesting to know how (if at all) these styles influenced each other.

It's been so quiet around here, I thought I'd try and start a new conversation. Or maybe it's just me... :)


  • Posts: 4,833
    Wow: "Austrian/ Bavarian/ Alpine zither playing such as by Anton Karas"
    Now that's something you don't read often.
    Well, never really in my case.
    I'll check it out though.

    But yeah, it's all the regional influences that seep in.
    I know that every clarinet player I played with, also played klezmer.
    Every note wants to go somewhere-Kurt Rosenwinkel
  • AndrewUlleAndrewUlle Cleveland, OH✭✭✭ Cigano GJ-15
    edited January 2017 Posts: 541
    You know Karas' work in the soundtrack to a The Third Man / Harry Lime Theme. Huge international hit in 1950, and a great film, btw, starring Orson Wells and Joseph Cotton.

  • Posts: 4,833
    Holly cow! So awesome.
    Every note wants to go somewhere-Kurt Rosenwinkel
  • scotscot Virtuoso
    Posts: 658
    All of these styles - klezmer, zither, what we call gypsy music, etc - have common roots in Eastern Europe. Two real master musicians I've played with over the years managed to find clever ways to integrate these styles. Vadim Kolpakov, the Russian gypsy 7-string virtuoso, sometimes does a show with the incredible Ukrainian violinist Arkady Gips called "Gypsy Klezmorim" where they do just that. And multi-instrumentalist Ken Bloom, who grew up playing clarinet in bar mitzvah bands in 60s LA and is an incredible zither player a la Anton Karas, also plays balalaika and is a fine swing guitarist. His bands usually play some clever combination of all these forms. I always found that if styles of music sound related, there's bound to be a historical connection somewhere.

    Clever musicians everywhere always found new ways of combining the sounds they heard, which thankfully is still happening today. For example, the great klezmer clarinetist David Krakauer has combined funk and klezmer in his band Abraham Inc. Who would have imagined that ?
  • scotscot Virtuoso
    Posts: 658
    The Third Man makes a great GJ tune, Koen De Kauter recorded it a few years ago.
  • NylonDaveNylonDave Glasgow✭✭✭ Perez Valbuena Flamenca 1991
    edited January 2017 Posts: 462
    Musical purity is like it's racial equivalent, it does not and never has existed.
    Music, like people can be smart or dull or pretty or not and of course beauty and style is in the eye of the beholder.

    Am I the only one hearing Hawaiian slack key style in the textures The Third Man and doesn't his right hand look an awful lot like Elizabeth Cotton's(self taught on her brothers righty guitar) ? And the melody sounds Greek/Mediterranean to me, don't know why (probably the repeating semitone motif).

    Here is the awesome Rafeal Cortes mixing up Paco De Lucia, traditional flamenco material and eastern European folk tunes. Juxtapostions (melody and time signature) start thick and fast at around 6.30

    He almost seem to be deliberately making the OPs point.

  • NylonDaveNylonDave Glasgow✭✭✭ Perez Valbuena Flamenca 1991
    Posts: 462
    Unfortunately the episode has been deleted but there are some clips on the page.
  • wimwim ChicagoModerator Barault #503 replica
    edited January 2017 Posts: 1,459
    You want to check out Romanian music. Electric guitar stuff like Nicusor Tiuleanu, I'm sure guys like Sebastien Ginaux and Angelo Debarre have mined the depths of this stuff for ideas.

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