Neck Relief

Bob Holo

Would it be possible to "fix" some of it with a different setup, namely raising the zero fret?

I wouldn't do anything permanent in the hope that you'll like the difference, particularly as you might need to change a lot of things to get a stiffer setup that maintains the sound and intonation. The high zero fret / no-relief setups are typically found on guitars built for that setup. The necks are more square and the fingerboards are dead-flat, among other things.

But you could do a quick experiment by going down to a hardware store and getting a couple different sized brads / small nails and slipping them under the strings near your existing zero fret. Cut off the head and trim or dull the ends so you don't cut yourself up and be aware that it might put a little dent in your fretboard. It'll change your intonation a little because essentially you're installing an under-string capo near the zero fret to raise the strings a little. So if your frets are 1.2mm high, find a little wire-nail that is 1.4mm wide. If you like that, then maybe raise your zero fret a little? I've never used a nail like that, but I've used nails as setup aids and such - to identify the 12th fret location & etc. If you're careful, it shouldn't mess anything up. Be careful though, little changes in setup make big changes in playability and... like rock climing... it's easier to move forward than backward ;-) so be very slow to make changes in your setup. Especially if your guitar plays easy. Slinky easy setups are great!! Stiffening a setup even a little might wind up feeling good in the short term but shredding your forearms if you're playing a 3-set gig.

Buco

I was trying to brainstorm last night what I could do to temporarily raise a zero fret but I was thinking what I can place over the fret itself to raise it.
What you suggested sounds much easier for a quick trial.
I didn't know that even 0.2mm makes a difference in the feel.

As far as the neck relief on my guitar, I never had anyone tell me and I never measured myself. I have a feeling it's pretty flat judging by pressing the low E between 1 and 14 feet.
I'll try sliding a string under it as mentioned to see if any and how much clearance there is. Also the neck doesn't have a truss rod so it is what it is as far as relief, or I believe it to be the case. It's been great though as far as stability, knock on wood.
The action is 3/2.3 the best I can tell so not the slinkiest but pretty comfortable.

Thanks Bob.

pdg

Anybody feel that brand new Argentine strings feel looser -- too loose, in fact -- with a given action, and then as the strings get played more, the feel is stiffer and, finally, almost too stiff? (Sounds counterintuitive, but it's my experience, at least with loop-end 011s.)

Matteo

Yes, I have the same feeling. But I like the looseness of new Argentines. The signal for me to change the strings is most often when they feel too stiff.

Buco

I found another use to a soda can. Cut and folded over it provides about 0.3mm thickness.
I slid it over the zero fret and now I have about 1.8mm where the zero fret is 1.5mm
Frets are about 1.2 across the freeboard.
First thing I immediately noticed is that I had a hint of buzz on high E on the upstroke, now it's clear as bell. But I also feel it takes more mojo to pompe.
I'll see how it goes on the next jam and how long I last.
It also seems that there is more power and stiffness but I'll have to play it for a while and see.

Oh yeah, I checked the relief and like I thought there is very little of it. I can barely slide the 10 gauge string under low E across the neck when I fret on the first fret and towards the end of the neck. But it's pretty consistent too. That's the magic of Geoff's (Benge) setup work.
I've been thinking about taking my guitar to do a PLEK setup but now I doubt I'd get much benefit.

PS after playing a bit I think this is definitely making a difference I was looking for. Thank you again Bob for your insights.

terrassier

pdg wrote: »

Anybody feel that brand new Argentine strings feel looser -- too loose, in fact -- with a given action, and then as the strings get played more, the feel is stiffer and, finally, almost too stiff? (Sounds counterintuitive, but it's my experience, at least with loop-end 011s.)

Yes me too - but thought it not possible..... maybe it is.

pdg

I'm glad others are verifying my experience about new vs. played-in strings!

Does this also hold true for ball-end Argentines?

Buco

You know, I don't know if I'm imagining or what but I feel that raising a zero fret like that, only 0.3mm, gave my guitar...I don't know, at least 20% more power.
I'm pretty sure I'm going to take it to somebody, probably get in touch with Craig B., to replace a fret and make this permanent.
I can't wait to go to a jam and see what it's projecting like among other instruments.

Frank Wekenmann

Wouldn't raising the zero-fret compromise the intonation, especially in the lower part of the fretboard?

Buco

It's pretty good according to the tuner and I don't hear anything jarringly out of place.
I have a feeling I can even lower the action a touch now and still keep the benefits of this setup.

Bob you have no idea how grateful I am to you for mentioning this and your advice.
You can hear for yourself if you come to this year's DIJ.