Sadly I am giving up Gypsy Jazz

diminishedrun

Great discussion everyone - I’m grateful for the thoughts. I had a discussion with my guitar teacher tonight and his view was that improvisation is best understood once a better understanding of harmony etc is in place.

I’m not sure that I’ll ever be a big fan of the improvisational aspects of this genre but I absolutely do think that there is an opportunity for me to look at an alternative way of presenting the songs with lyrics.

Buco

Improvisation is more fun to perform than to listen to.
Well once you pass the first few humps which can be stressful, frustrating and last a while. But all it'll take is one high you get from it and then you'll keep doing it, chasing that feeling.
I love this genre and Django is still by far my favorite player in the genre but what really drew me in is the Hot Club rhythm section more than Django. That's what I wanted to keep hearing.

My friend Jim feels exactly the same regarding lyrics that go along with music. To him it's equal parts. He actually had a a bit of a hard time understanding when I told him I listened to a lot of American rock music as a kid well before I had a full or any understanding of English language. We took our first group GJ lessons together. Needless to say, he didn't last.

My old band from Chicago had the same format like Jay mentioned. We had a female vocalist and would take solos on the same songs she sang. I actually loved hearing the lyrics to songs I already played for a while without knowing them. So much better than the stuff you hear nowadays, such imaginative and creative writing back then.

Such as:









I mean, who writes stuff like:

"I want your love but I don't want to borrow
Have it today and give back tomorrow"

billyshakes

Buco wrote: »

I mean, who writes stuff like:

"I want your love but I don't want to borrow
Have it today and give back tomorrow"

Why, this guy...of course! ;-)~

diminishedrun

Buco nails it when he says that improvisation is more fun to play than to listen to and that, I guess, is the crux of the matter for me. But yes I totally accept that an audience for this genre will most likely be people who are very appreciative of this aspect but I just doubt I would ever be.

However, in the links posted above, the sung version is outstanding and does grab my attention. I must admit though that I’m one of those who remain somewhat not impressed by instrumental versions of tunes composed with lyrics in mind.

Still, I am blown away by good gypsy players and have the upmost respect for their ability.

Bones

Different strokes I guess. I like to listen to good improvisers. It's the best part of it for me.

Russell Letson

First, follow your ears and heart and pursue the music you can't get out of your head. This is not a competition (despite what some jam circles might degenerate into), nor is it a checklist of obligatory achievements. It don't mean a thing if it don't make you swing. Or something like that.

Second, "gypsy jazz" or hot club music or whatever we call it has deep roots in the social/dance/popular music of the first half of the last century, and the hot-dog improvisation was just one part of that stream of music--mostly thanks to the example of Django. But if you listen to the early QHCF sides, you hear dance music--American swing and pop, with bits of musette, pushed in the direction of jazz by the examples of Armstrong and Venuti/Lang and reinforced by the presence of, say, Coleman Hawkins and Benny Carter.



Improvisation isn't the only thing going on here--nor is jazz the only musical tradition in which improv has a role. (Nor is, to my ears, improv not fun to listen to--at least, if it's done right. But that's a whole other conversation.)

Even though as a war baby (that is, older than a baby-boomer) and thus officially a rock and roll and Folk Scare kid, I grew up on swing--it was my parents' social (and courting) music. That music was in my head at the same time as the entire history of rock (up to 1970, anyway) and the folk-revival, but it wasn't until I turned fifty that I pursued swing--as a rhythm player and accompanist and eventually mediocre singer. You don't have to be the soloist to maintain a satisfying relationship with this music--I was hearing rhythm sections in my head long before I was imagining lead-like variations on the melody. (And I'm well past the stage where I'm willing to work on the skills needed to realize those on the guitar. At 73, life really is too short for some projects. I can sing the daylights out of some tunes, though.)

Short version (oops, too late): Don't bother regretting a decision to pursue some other kind of music. But don't walk away because of a misapprehension about the joys that this kind has to offer.

Matteo

There are so many ways to enjoy swing music. I think I have tried most of them: playing the guitar, playing the trumpet in a big band, singing, lindy hop dancing ... Improvisation when it's best is composing on the spot. I'm not so fond of guitar playing as formula 1 racing. My favourite Django recordings are from the first half of the 1940's. It's like he's got nothing to prove; he just plays the most beautiful music he can think of. My absolute favourite has to be Lentement Mademoiselle. That solo just kills me, every time I listen to it. It's all about expressing emotions. It's communication. Charlie Christian came up with a solo on Stardust that he played more or less the same way every time he played it. If it sounds good it is good. It' as simple as that.

Chiefbigeasy

That's beauty guitar you're selling. I wouldn't sell it if I didn't have to because I think it's pretty versatile. That said, if I were near you, I'd scoop it up in a heartbeat.

Good luck in all your endeavors.

diminishedrun

Hey guys this is a great thread and I am glad it’s also sparked some great information for me to chew over. What strikes me as being my fault is that I am kind of applying a label of ‘gypsy jazz’ to something which is clearly just music. A friend of mine today reminded me that it’s actually a very good thing to have experience of this music because essentially it crops up everywhere. I’m tentatively looking at hie I can carry on but focus more on singing whilst accompanying myself - that is certainly withing my scope.

I’m torn over selling my guitar. I actually feel that it won’t sell quickly because the UK has a smaller market. It is an oustanding instrument but I am not keen on it being predominantly sat in a case.

jonpowl

I've become enchanted with Caloe (vocalist Barbie Camion) doing songs from her living room. She uses a variety of instrumentation and musicians, but I'm especially drawn to the songs which include la guitare manouche like Les Gouttes; Faire des ronds dans l'eau; La Mer; and I'll Remember April featuring Noe Reine. I also enjoy Tuyo featuring some outstanding ukulele playing. I would love to play in a band that does these kind of songs with a vocalist.