Tone dilemna

MikeK

Fascinating Bones, thanks for your help here. Below is a link to a clip of my trio Dinah's Daydream doing Swing 39, I'm in the middle with the black hat. I wonder if my rhythm style is adding to the low end tone issue? Let me know what you think...

Watch "Dinahs Daydream--Swing 39" on YouTube

https://youtu.be/2elQESJ5itU

Buco

Ha @Bones nailed it right on the head. I agree, 1/3 beats are a touch too long. Quicker damping with the left hand would do it. Actually your guitar bandmate has rhythm that's a pretty good model to follow. Or if you split the difference between your rhythm and when you were comping for the bass solo you're gonna land right where you need to be. You guys are a fun band. I was hoping to hear that tone that you're so firmly trying to stick to. But your miced tone here is fantastic, even more so playing rhythm.

Chiefbigeasy

I agree with Bones and Buco: a little more mute on the 1&3 may get you where you want to be. If you went in the opposite direction, you’d be heading into country swing territory.

I’m also impressed with your rock solid time. That’s welcome in anybody’s band.

Bones

Yep that's it! I think it's kind of a US phenomenon but a lot of people comp that way initially (at least I know I did). It seems easier to do it that way because you don't have to squeeze your left hand grip on every beat but actually to damp each beat just don't grip the strings too tightly at all. Makes it harder to damp them if you initially grip them too tight. It doesn't take but a touch to make tone, you don't have to push down much at all. Just enough to make a tone but as dry as possible. Experiment with going from no tone at all (just percussion, fully damped, really try comping along with a recording but completely damp with your left hand, still sounds cool and this allows you to also check out what kind of percussive sound you are getting out of your right hand technique) and increase the tone a little at a time. You should be able to control it until you find what you guys like best. From a quick listen to my ears it's like you are not damping the 1,3 at all. They are ringing the whole time until you hit the 2,4?? And also you are only really hitting the bass strings on 1,3. Emphasize them but hit all the strings. I completely damp the high E and B strings on almost all chord voicings to stay out of the way of the soloist but I hit them just for the percussive effect.

Anyway, that's my preference since you asked but everyone has their own take on it. It took me a long time to find a tone I liked but the best way to get there is find pros that you like and play along with their recordings until you like how you sound with them or better yet get a lesson from them directly if possible.

Also helped me to just practice the 1,3. Then the 2,4. Then combine them. I think of the 1,3 as more of a 'rake' with the right hand which gives a 'woof' tone and the 2,4 as a slightly faster flick of the right hand which makes more of a 'chick' tone. But that is exaggerating for clarity. They really don't need to be all that different even to the point of "flat four' which I also like a lot in the right context. But it all comes down to personal preference/style/nuance and everyone is different. That's what makes rhythm playing so fun and interesting to me. It's way harder and more complex than most people think.

Hope that helps. Have fun. You guys sound great!

Bones

PS- oh yeah what Buco said, to me it almost sounds like what you are doing behind the bass is closer to what might work all the time. More percussion, less ringing/tone.

And pick easy changes to practice on until you get the muscle memory so you are concentrating on tone and don't have to think about the chords so much.

wim

http://djangobooks.com/forum/discussion/comment/100539#Comment_100539

Bones I am impressed by your psychic powers! ?

MikeK- it's unrelated to the original issue, but give the higher position for Bb6 a try the next time you play Swing 39. Like [688788]. That first position Bb6 voicing you're playing sounds too much like a Gm7, which muddies the tune up a bit.

MikeK

Gentlemen--I dont know how to thank you enough for your help here. I started out seeking tone advice, and I ended up being handed the gold: how to fix my tone dilemna & play better rhythm guitar in one fell swoop. Bones, you're a GJ Ninja! Thank you for your expert diagnosis. I really appreciate you & Buco taking the time to listen to my playing & to hone in on what needs improvement in my rhythm & how to make it happen. I've been putting your suggestions to work while practicing with my backing tracks today, and I love it! I'm experimenting with barely holding down the chord and gently dampening all 4 beats with my left hand. A slightly more chordal version of what I was doing during the bass solo in the video. I'm relaxing into it and I'm already hearing & feeling satisfying results. And Chief Big Easy, thank you for complimenting my time. This forum (and it's wise and generous participants) really is a treasure. When we get to the other side of this health crisis & the gigs are back, maybe I'll post a clip of my band at a plugged in gig. You gents will be able to evaluate the results of sharing your GJ wisdom with me.

In gratitude,

Mike

Bones

Hey Wim, haha yeah not psychic. It's the only thing I could think of based on what he was describing. As I said it's kind of a US - western swing kind of thing. I had it too in the beginning that's how I guessed what he was describing.

MikeK, glad it is working out. You will do well with your good timing and now play around and get the tone you like. Once you get the tone it makes it a whole lot more satisfying to comp. I'm still searching :-)

Buco

Wim maybe he intended to play Gm. I played Bb69 until Samy Doussat at Django in June wondered out loud why people play Bb when he said he saw Joseph Reinhardt (on the video I'm guessing, I forgot what he said exactly) play Gm. He also claimed the melody fits Gm more so than Bb but that I think can go both ways. Ever since I switched to it too though once in awhile I go back to Bb for a change of flavors.

Mike, I'd love to hear your plugged in sound sometimes. I use Krivo too, with 20W tube combo but occasionally only. I love the sound but usually end up using much smaller solid state amp.

Bones

Hey Wim/Buco, yeah I think he's playing Gm7 to C7. The bass is playing G D over that first chord I think.

I split the difference and play 6x57xx for the first chord, fits no matter what the rest of the players are doing.