Rushing through challenging passages

Buco · August 2021

This recent "fast chromatic lines" discussion got me thinking about this.

I've noticed that when I'm practicing something challenging like that middle line in Choti (not so much the chromatic part but what comes just before it, with lots of down/down picking) and fumble at high tempo, it's often because I rush through it. Very little, minuscule amount, I'm not aware of it. I know it's happening because I occasionally record myself practicing and that's when I notice. In the beginning it's the fingers not catching up. But once I go through my slow moving routine, I think (and it shows in the recording) it's more of a case of fingers rushing ahead and tripping over themselves. I think of myself as very aware of tempo changes when playing with others. Occasionally I try to remind myself of not rushing while I practice (and I still might do it) but since I'm not aware of it I forget most of the time. I don't really practice with metronome that much. But I do play along backing tracks and recorded music like Rosenberg version of Choti. Although their tempo varies quite a bit on the recording. Not only that they take a breather between sections but during the song too. It will really pick up the tempo just before the tricky middle part. But that's how music works right? It's never metronomic. Even with the best of the best. But it's tight and and flows and you can't really tell that it's oscillating so it's no problem.

Then there are players who simply play like as a style and preference, pushing just a touch. Like Angelo. Sometimes to the point where it's really audibly faster. So not a problem for him. So is my answer to simply let things be and practice? But I'd get things faster under my fingers if wasn't doing this, I'm pretty sure. Plus it's on my musician's bucket list to be able to play as I decide; on the beat, just behind or just ahead. But not to make that the point of this post...

Any thoughts to share on this running ahead of myself?

billyshakes · August 2021

I've noticed when I anticipate difficult passages, I get tense. Whether that is in my pick grip, my jaw, my muscles, etc. and that will lead to tempo variations and non-relaxed playing. I've learned to recognize that when I play, and take measures to consciously relax my shoulders, ease the squeeze on the pick, unclench my jaw, relax my wrist, etc. Usually it only takes me to do one of those things and the others follow. I've made the analogy to swimming laps in the pool. As I get tired, my form suffers and I have to be more conscious of my catch, my rotation in the water, my hand entry, etc. If you are constantly "checking in" with the status of those things as you go along, sort of how a pilot would constantly check his engine instruments, fuel gauge, navigation instruments, etc., then you have a greater likelihood of keeping up with the variations and correcting for them before they get too far in deviation.

To bring that back to guitar, I have started to periodically consciously think to relax my shoulders or unclench my jaw while I'm playing. In fact, with respect to the jaw, smiling really helps. If you are happy and smiling because you are enjoying the music you are playing, you will be relaxed. I don't know how you could be genuinely smiling while being tense at the same time.

littlemark · August 2021

Oh man, my jaw is tense when I practise as well. Very annoying. I'm trying to work on it.

Buco · August 2021

@billyshakes swimming is a good one. I don't know if we're talking about the same thing when you say anticipate, but when I anticipate ahead that's what helps me make less mistakes. Like when racer skiers say they focus on 2-3-4 gates ahead and not at where they're at the moment. Moguls skiers, skiing in trees etc, they all say the same thing; don't focus on where you're at but at what's coming up.

Somewhat similar, as a kid for a when I asked a friend who I drew with for fun (he became a professional animation artist) how is that your line is like ruler straight and mine is all squiggly and he said it's because you're looking at the tip of the pencil, you should be looking ahead on the sheet or at where you want to end up.

Also, Bill, your smiling reference reminded me Adam Rafferty saying something similar. He makes it a point to smile while playing and said his playing improved since he started doing that.

BrettN · August 2021

Hey guys,

I feel this is very similar to what I was driving at in my initial question.

For me there is a certain point after which logical, systematic, focused practice is just not possible/helpful. Perhaps a better way to express this is through the example of that Choti phrase (again-sorry :/) - I don’t mean to hijack your thread Buco- I think we’re on the same page here. When I first posted that question I could play the lick from start to finish consistently around 200BPM set on quavers. But that is still along way from the speed at which Stochelo plays it. So how do you get it faster after the point where the metronome’s pulse is indiscernible? I would guess that guys like Stochelo didn’t learn to play it using the same methods as I am. Bearing in mind that he would’ve played similar ideas 10000s of times over the course of his lifetime- literally. What I’m driving at is I believe there’s a certain point after which you’ve just gotta go for it….learn it properly and practice it methodically (metronome etc.) and then play it 5000 times- and then use is musically! We’ve identified how he slows down in that phrase before beginning the ascending chromatic run- there’s a good chance he’s (re)listening to where he is against the harmony and then just launching towards the C# he knows he wants to finish on. This is just speculation and we’re talking a micro second but I know I do this myself if I think about my own playing. Someone even pointed out that he lands on the wrong note in one of his practice runs- so he’s human after all!

At the end of the day it’s what makes the great guys great. I was lucky enough to attend a Tommy Emmanuel camp some years ago and there were some pretty good players there but Tommy’s playing was just next level….it was the product of a lifetime of dedication to one thing only. And I mean dedication- hours and hours every day…practice, gig, practice, gig, practice, gig for 60 years! Stochelo is the same,You know what I mean.

billyshakes · August 2021

The anticipate I was referring to was if I know a troubling passage for me is coming up. I'll start do get anxious knowing it may be difficult or that I have erred there in the past. That will cause the tension. But that is because I'm carrying that baggage. If I just relax and flow with the song, I think I make fewer errors.

I would agree with you that you should be thinking ahead of the tune a little bit (but not dreading!). If you are sliding up the neck to a new chord, you could look there in advance of the move. Just like on those chromatic runs you look to the destination and then just allow your hand to sort of slide evenly to get there. I think race car drivers do the same thing "looking ahead." If in a corner, the don't look at where they are but focus out of the corner, looking for where they want to put the car as they will exit.

Buco · August 2021

I see, Bill, I understand exactly. I've experienced the same, dreading about the upcoming section of the song where screw ups usually happen. Thinking about it coming up, I'd get nervous...guess what the outcome usually is? What helped is I decided to embrace those parts and look forward to it, an attitude shift. So anticipate in that sense. However what I wrote earlier is connected but not exactly the same. Say the situation is I'm playing and know something I have a chance to screw up is coming up. I get nervous. That part arrives and it's all I think about at the moment. I'm ultra focused on where the fingers are landing. It's the perfect recipe to screw up. Now if you let yourself be on auto-pilot and let your previous practice do the work, you'll do fine. So to help avoid focusing on where you're placing your fingers at the moment, you think about the phrase that's ahead and that takes your mind away from the task at hand. It's two different areas of your brain that are being used. Very well described in the book called "Choke" by Sian Beilock.

What you said earlier about relaxing also works. The trick is to make it a habit and train your body to enter that state without having to remind yourself all the time. I do it during live shows, I can tense up there and realize it and I have to think about the area of body to relax. And it works to some extent. Funny thing is I tried putting on the smiley face, (following Adam's story and my wife telling me "you could smile once in awhile when you play") when I play and that would immediately throw me off. It's so weird, why would it matter? But it did so I said "ok now I have to practice to incorporate the smile? forget it".

Yes, similar thing with car racing, when in the corner. All to get your mind from the task at hand and let your training take over.

Buco · August 2021

@BrettN I'm not sure that I can place myself in this situation "there is a certain point after which logical, systematic, focused practice is just not possible/helpful". There's certainly a point of overdoing it within the practice session. I was told to take short breaks every 20-30 minutes. I'm guessing you're saying you're just not seeing/hearing any further progress... I'm curious, why do you need the metronome on 8th notes, why not quarter notes? Yes, that does sound it gets very hectic.

The way I practiced these last few days is along Stochelo using ASD or amazing slow downer app. I started at 50% of the recording. Spent time there until I felt confident and comfortable. Then started practicing at my own performance tempo, which I couldn't settle on completely. Somewhere between 75-90 percent of Rosenbergs'. 75 is/was comfortable but I also want to push myself too so I did at 90 percent too which varies roughly between 135 and 145bpm (1/4 notes) give or take a few bpm. And that's where I noticed the thing that prompted me to start this discussion, I know that happened before. I recorded myself on the take and out of three times that this tricky section happens, one time was fairly good, one barely passable and one where I tripped. Where I did well, I stayed on the beat. Where I screwed up, I rushed the phrase. So I decided to take it down to a more comfortable place and leave it there for the time. But I still make sure to go through it very slow several times before I take it to the performance tempo.

Someday I'll record a detailed video of what I do to break it down but it can literally be two noted at the time. I really credit this method to break the "speed" ceiling that was just an abstraction as recent as few years ago. But even though my affair with the guitar is coming up to 40 years, it was late in my life that I decided to devote myself to practice and finally developed, sort of, a method for myself. So it's really more the time that I'm putting in more that any method. I actually wrote an article which Michael published on the blog here so you can read the it and the comments below. But I still think a video would bring more light to what I actually do. For example, when the chromatic in Choti ends, he plays the Eb min7b5 arp. At some point I was just practicing the lower octave: Eb, F#, A, C#, Eb and then adding the higher octave. Then the next phrase over E7 to A, that phrase at times I broke up in 2-3 separate chunks...and so on. I totally agree with "there’s a certain point after which you’ve just gotta go for it". This I believe is when you let your work and training take over, what I mentioned in the earlier comment. The trick is to be able to stay in that zone without activating your active brain, that I didn't solve yet...

https://djangobooks.com/forum/discussion/17924/the-two-minute-practice-method

Buco · August 2021

it was the product of a lifetime of dedication to one thing only. And I mean dedication- hours and hours every day…practice, gig, practice, gig, practice, gig for 60 years! Stochelo is the same,You know what I mean.

This, exactly right. Somehow I truly understood this not that long ago. Through all the Django in June's I went to, that was a common theme among all these people we admire so much: no super genes, no methods, no practice schedules, just a lot of time and work. I won't say hard work, because they needed and wanted it as much as air. I was also told "don't worry about speed, play and it'll come".