What is this "pre"turnaround" called?

Malong9

Wow, thank you everyone for the responses. Very insightful.

It's strange, I haven't heard of either Christophe nor The Horse so far while studying this genre.

And yes, after making the first post, I went to listen to some more songs, and noticed how common it is in the style.

Thanks for the pointers for the improvisation aspect, I will use the weekend to try to explore these ideas and hopefully be able to play something acceptable over the sequence.

lucky

I've a quick tip - you can always play the IVm even if the rhythm section is playing the bVdim e.g. in All of Me an F major arpeggio or lick followed by the same lick with the third flattened will work. It's also a good tip to try and emphasise the major third in the VI7 chord.

Bones

I seem to remember there was another variation of the Christophe that goes by another name like anatole or something???

MartinG

Hi ! I've always known that cadence as "Christophe cadence", with its numerous variations (IVm or #IV°).

It's not exactly in Some of these days as there is no IV (it goes directly to the #IV°) but in Django's Tiger, Them there eyes and many others.

I explain that "magical" Idim chord, which is the same as the bIII° (in G/B Bb° Am7 D7) and the #IV° (in C C#° G), and of course the G G° G (To each his own, Duke and dukie) also played G F#7 G (Seul ce soir, Them there eyes). I know, this chord is just everywhere 😆

Here's the video, in french but with english subtitles : https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cIBpowzKNuM

I hope that helps !

lucky

https://www.djangobooks.com/forum/discussion/comment/110411#Comment_110411

I dug out the Romane book and have the answer, which is yes and no. The progression we're talking about is strictly speaking a Christophe followed by an Anatole, the two are not synonymous and it seems we've all been getting it wrong calling the progression a Christophe (assuming Romane is right).

The Christophe is a I-IV-IVm cadence.

The Anatole is I or III - VI - II - V cadence.

So the 'horse' starts with a Christophe followed by the Anatole.

Romane (or his co-writer Derek Sebastien) also calls the Christophe a Plagel Cadence and the Anatole a turnaround.

Bones

Thx

What about a I-IV-#IVdim ? Is that a variation on the Christophe?

Digby

Ha! To add some confusion...

The way I feel the diminished chord, functionally, is setting up the tension (diminished) for release (major). My previous theory knowledge that's closest to GJ is maybe Barry Harris (I've listened to plenty of Django, but never tried to analyze his music too deeply, or play it, before). The section in this video starting at 5:20 explains how I feel that diminished chord.

https://youtu.be/Xbe3P2qZrfE

The IV-I, I call the amen cadence. It's meant to be a utilitarian rather than divisive term. Technically it's a plagal cadence, but then people say, "What?"

The IV-iv-I, I call the "things are wrapping up" cadence, but that's also just a conceit from one particular tradition. I suppose that's what every terminology is.

The vi-ii-V-I, I call the circle cadence (bc circle of 5ths) or circle turnaround. In blues, I do sometimes play the II as major, and of course use diminished notes to propel towards "home" (assuming it's a turnaround)

In their various major and minor guises, I can see how the turnarounds can be like a horse that gets the drunkard home. So, I kinda like that name, though I have no idea where that term came from (someone mentioned it above, and I've heard that before, too). I have a feeling Christophe and Anatole are more common terms in France than in the USA, where I'm from.

I'm a hobbyists not a preacher, so this is opinion not gospel.

Buco

I like "things are wrapping up" and "circle", makes sense.

AndyW

I love the idea - no matter how intoxicated by the music or the usquabae you might be, you can jump onto "The Horse" and it will will always get you back home, ;-)

(watch out for those witches in the kirk-yard, Tam)

ChristopheCarington

Felt my ears ringing for some reason...