The name 'Gypsy Jazz'

Russell Letson

Some people are sensitive to matters that directly affect them, and then there are people who seem to sensitive *on behalf of* people they think must be sensitive. And there are situations where language or behavior is thought to be completely out of bounds in polite society (whatever that is) and worth calling out even if it's not one's own ox being gored. That last situation is particularly tricky, since sometimes it can come across as a cousin of "let's you and him fight."

And I can't find a standard way of determining where the lines that mustn't be crossed are. Even the fact that there are terms used by members of affected groups isn't a reliable guide--remember, "I can call myself that, but you can't." With all the variables in line-drawing and offense-giving and the willingness of some folk to evoke "how dare you!" at the drop of an epithet, there are times I opt for silence rather than grope around for the certified-inoffensive language.

pdg

I think that whenever there are new cultural movements (e.g., recognition of Roma/Sinti/"Gypsies" as an identity and a historically oppressed and denigrated minority), some proponents at the forefront of change (and their arguments) are strident, overly righteous, and sometimes inflexible. Similarly, the holders of then-traditional views may, during this time, react in an inflexible and defensive manner. It takes some time for various strains of thought to develop, mature, and take into account nuance. I think that's just the way new developments happen. Eventually, more wisdom emerges (and then the society confronts the next new movement, with rigid confrontation, etc.!).

milltownswing

I don't care for any of the Orwellian word games that are pushed on society by those who are privileged enough to waste time on such trite political correctness. Must we declare pronouns as well? Land acknowledgements? It's all reminiscent of fundamentalist religions pushing their edicts on the non-practicing but impressionable majority among them.

"Gypsy jazz" is the most useful term in describing this genre. Until "Dutch Sinti Jazz" catches on, or something to that effect, I'll continue to use the most practical descriptor available. Some people out there get upset about the word "JAZZ", for Pete's sake, claiming it's racist! Just don't participate in these euphemism treadmills, from "freedom fries" to "birthing persons", it's all propaganda that shouldn't be entertained by rational people.

Bones

Chris, seems like you are kind of acting the "snowflake" getting all bent out of shape and verbose when someone calls you out for your ironic (since this whole thread was about being careful about how we speak to people) choice of words. It always seems to me that the people who use ad hominem arguments like calling people names are typically the ones most apt to use offensive arguments and then be all offended themselves when they are called out for it. Sorry dude but just saying.

And as long as we are talking offensive political things here, yes here in the US terms like "woke" "political correct" and "snowflake" are routinely used by right wing nut jobs like tRump and his ilk to somehow try to justify their horrible ideas. So how about we keep that out of our music forum.

And another thing, if I had the honor to meet or play music with one of the greats in this genre I sure as hell wouldn't go "I sure like your gypsy jazz" unless I was sure that was the way they preferred their music to be referred to. It has been speculated many times on this forum and elsewhere that Django just considered himself as a "jazz" musician.

djazzy

Ah. The Hobbesian reality of an online comment section: nasty, brutish, and never quite as short as you'd like.

Bones

Hey I didn't start it. Maybe Michael should take this thread down.

MichaelHorowitz

This is always a touchy topic, but one that should be revisited from time to time considering the historical persecution of the Roma and Sinti. Looks like things got a little overheated so I’ll lock this thread for now.