Jangle_JamieScottish HighlandsNewDe Rijk, some Gitanes and quite a few others
Posts: 349
Great to see the mould for the top. Can you show a completed top with braces please? Does the top want to try to return to its original flat form? Surely that's a lot of tension on the glue/braces, or is it not that much? Could you steam/heat the top in the former to give it a more permanent shape? Or are you not concerned about the top trying to return to its flat origins?
It's some tension which I actually like (because it increases the stiffness). But the braces and top lock into the sides so it's all sort of stuck together. The top arch has some similarity to a cathedral roof. It can't splay out so it's stuck in that arch in multiple ways.
The top can deform from string pressure, definitely. It's a balance of making it strong enough to resist that but also making it light enough to vibrate appropriately.
Here is a picture of a top getting the braces glued. The braces are arched to the shape I want. When the glue dries the arch remains. It's not much stress on the glue.
Jangle_JamieScottish HighlandsNewDe Rijk, some Gitanes and quite a few others
Posts: 349
wow, brilliant! Yes I can imagine the top/braces will be locked into the sides when it's assembled and glued. Could you make a heavily arched back with the same method? Maybe you could make a Busato-inspired guitar?!!
Backs are usually arched but the rim is also arched so the back ends up being a regular spherical shape. In my understanding of things the back isn't contributing a ton to the sound so I'm not doing a ton with it in the manner that I work with the top.
Jangle_JamieScottish HighlandsNewDe Rijk, some Gitanes and quite a few others
Posts: 349
Ok, but perhaps the arched back gives a greater sized sound chamber in the centre of the guitar, and more of a focused reflector of sound out of the hole? My Dupont Busato seems to fire sound straight out the hole into whoever's sitting in front of me!! and I can't help thinking it's partly because of that heavily arched back. I also think they look amazing!!!
That would be in the list of all the great unquantifiables but in my understanding I would go with probably not.
I make pretty heavily arched backs on my guitars but I don't particularly think that the back arch has a huge influence on the sound. I think it helps prevent back cracking as it's easier to stretch something that's bent into an arch vs something that's already taut.
I don't really think of the back as a reflector as much as part of an air compressor so in the sense that an arched back can potentially expand and contract i think that's a good thing. But on most Selmer style guitars the backs are pretty heavily braced and the braces decide how much movement the back can have. Heavy bracing = not much movement.
I would take everything I say here with many grains of salt. It is very very difficult to say what any part of any guitar is doing acoustically. Personally I think you can rate things in order of how much they resonate. The lower bout of the soundboard resonates far more than anything. So its importance in the sound is highly significant. The neck doesn't resonate much at all, so its influence is minor. The back resonates some smaller amount, so it has some influence, but much, much less than the soundboard.
Again, my opinions about something that's super hard to measure.
Here's a little video about how I'm thicknessing the tops for these guitars.
I should have mentioned it, it's kinda cool but when I push the tops into the molds, for a split second they kinda get stuck into the mold by vacuum pressure
Comments
You can use a small zip tie as a stopper for the thermometer.
I keep making poorly produced videos as I go along.
I think this is the longest and probably most boring video I've ever made:
This one is much shorter and accounts for some errors I made in the previous one and how I fixed them:
Great to see the mould for the top. Can you show a completed top with braces please? Does the top want to try to return to its original flat form? Surely that's a lot of tension on the glue/braces, or is it not that much? Could you steam/heat the top in the former to give it a more permanent shape? Or are you not concerned about the top trying to return to its flat origins?
It's some tension which I actually like (because it increases the stiffness). But the braces and top lock into the sides so it's all sort of stuck together. The top arch has some similarity to a cathedral roof. It can't splay out so it's stuck in that arch in multiple ways.
The top can deform from string pressure, definitely. It's a balance of making it strong enough to resist that but also making it light enough to vibrate appropriately.
Here is a picture of a top getting the braces glued. The braces are arched to the shape I want. When the glue dries the arch remains. It's not much stress on the glue.
wow, brilliant! Yes I can imagine the top/braces will be locked into the sides when it's assembled and glued. Could you make a heavily arched back with the same method? Maybe you could make a Busato-inspired guitar?!!
Backs are usually arched but the rim is also arched so the back ends up being a regular spherical shape. In my understanding of things the back isn't contributing a ton to the sound so I'm not doing a ton with it in the manner that I work with the top.
Ok, but perhaps the arched back gives a greater sized sound chamber in the centre of the guitar, and more of a focused reflector of sound out of the hole? My Dupont Busato seems to fire sound straight out the hole into whoever's sitting in front of me!! and I can't help thinking it's partly because of that heavily arched back. I also think they look amazing!!!
That would be in the list of all the great unquantifiables but in my understanding I would go with probably not.
I make pretty heavily arched backs on my guitars but I don't particularly think that the back arch has a huge influence on the sound. I think it helps prevent back cracking as it's easier to stretch something that's bent into an arch vs something that's already taut.
I don't really think of the back as a reflector as much as part of an air compressor so in the sense that an arched back can potentially expand and contract i think that's a good thing. But on most Selmer style guitars the backs are pretty heavily braced and the braces decide how much movement the back can have. Heavy bracing = not much movement.
I would take everything I say here with many grains of salt. It is very very difficult to say what any part of any guitar is doing acoustically. Personally I think you can rate things in order of how much they resonate. The lower bout of the soundboard resonates far more than anything. So its importance in the sound is highly significant. The neck doesn't resonate much at all, so its influence is minor. The back resonates some smaller amount, so it has some influence, but much, much less than the soundboard.
Again, my opinions about something that's super hard to measure.
Here's a little video about how I'm thicknessing the tops for these guitars.
I should have mentioned it, it's kinda cool but when I push the tops into the molds, for a split second they kinda get stuck into the mold by vacuum pressure