DjangoBooks.com
Welcome to our Community!
Categories
- 20K All Categories
- 1.1K General
- 485 Welcome
- 60 Archtop Eddy's Corner
- 147 CD, DVD, and Concert Reviews
- 385 FAQ
- 26 Gypsy Jazz Italia
- 27 Photos
- 209 Gypsy Picking
- 21 Unaccompanied Django
- 15 Pearl Django Play-Along Vol.1
- 17 Gypsy Fire
- 45 Gypsy Rhythm
- 1.4K Gypsy Jazz University - Get Educated
- 131 Gypsy Jazz 101
- 231 Repertoire
- 229 History
- 709 Technique
- 51 Licks and Patterns
- 6 Daniel Givone Manouche Guitare Method Users Group
- 20 Eddie Lang Club
- 1.3K Gypsy Jazz Gear
- 816 Guitars, Strings, Picks, Amps, Pickups and Other Accessories
- 465 Classifieds
- 52 Recording
- 64 Other Instruments
- 18 Violin
- 5 Mandolin
- 23 Accordion
- 7 Bass
- 11 Woodwinds
- 352 Gypsy Jazz Events
- 145 North America
- 112 Europe
- 95 International
In this Discussion
Who's Online (2)
-
12:09PM -
12:08PM
Today's Birthdays
Fun Question Of The Month--March
Last night on a gig with master guitarist Marc Lingle (who I met through this forum), I had the opportunity to try out his Gibson Tal Farlow archtop. I found it to be a superb sounding & playing instrument. The experience made me think about all of the cool archtops out there, so my question is this:
What's the coolest archtop you've ever played? It doesn't have to be one that you owned. Please limit your responses to 2. I'll start with mine:
1) my friend's old 80's Epiphone Joe Pass. It had that cool red sunburst finish. He sold it to me and I replaced the neck pickup with a '57 Gibson humbucker. Like a fool, I sold it back to him a few years ago, and I sometimes regret having let it go.
2) Marc's Gibson Tal Farlow.
Comments
Sorry for kinda breaking your rule but I'll also say every carved Epiphone I've played from the late 40s into early 50s would all easily qualify as runners up and are still a deal in the vintage archtop world (don't get the electric "zephyr" series tho, which are laminated back/sides; unlike Selmacs, everything carved is the standard for any high quality acoustic archtop, especially old Epis).
A second hand Guild Artist Award that they let me play in a guitar shop when passing through Berlin one time.
Everything I played sounded so good on that instrument - felt like I was high-level musician that afternoon.
To be honest I mostly don't get archtops. I'm never sure if they're supposed to sound good acoustically or not. If not, then what's the point? But then, acoustically, I think Selmers or flat tops sound better. Just my stupid opinion.
I did get a chance to play Matt Munisteiri's L5 for 2 hours once and that is a beautiful guitar in every way.
I spent an afternoon once playing many of the Blue Guitars collection. Oddly, I didn't really love the Jimmy D'Aquisto there even though there's a lot of things that inspire me. If I remember correctly, I really liked the Gibson and the Collings in the collection more than any of them.
oh and a runner up, a friend in town here has a Gibson Howards Roberts and that does sound really good through an amp...it was very fun to play. And I have a french archtop I got in a trade, a Guidon, and I love it.
I dunno though, I think perhaps the most likeable thing about electric archtops is that they aren't great acoustically and don't have a lot of sustain, so they get a nice percussive sound with a pickup. Might be heresy.
There have been others (Justin Lee's Comins archtop that he's had for years is pretty damn nice both acoustic and electric) (Buscarino nylon I got to try a few times in the post college years were pretty amazing archtop yet nylon guitars) (Mary Halverson's two guitars- the Guild Artist award and the Scipio are both beasts and somehow sound amazing electric - could be the dearmond 1100 pickup) . I am a pretty big fan of the mid punch intensity of the acoustic archtop. Sometimes they even sound good as electric guitars too.
Ps. @scot very fond memories of Greensboro and gypsy guitars and HCNC!
you get around Ben! I should follow you around sometime.
A 40s Gibson L7 I had the opportunity to use for an acoustic duo job some years ago. Made me play better than ever.
And an Epiphone, just as old as the Gibson, if I remember correctly.
Both instruments were owned by luthier Karsten Schnoor.
@paulmcevoy75 they both sounded beautiful; warm and round when plucked more by the neck, bright and loud when plucked near the bridge, "singers" in every situation. I admit that a lot of archtops (and selmerish guitars) have no touching voice, just cut through. But for me, a soulful acoustic sound is a criterion for every guitar, even for pure electric instruments.
If you’re looking for an acoustic archtop really built to project, then you mostly have to look at pre-war Gibsons and Epiphones. From the 50s on archtops where built heavier with the assumption they would be amplified and have feedback issues.
Epis have a lot of character and projection but I always found them too nasal and midrangey for my taste. In my experience the best 16” Gibson is a 1929 L-5. I think most agree these where the pinnacle of the original Loar design and have the best projection and tone. The block neck models from the early 1930s sound nice too but didn’t have the same charm and power of the 29. Although there seems to be a transitional period from 1930-32 where some of them still have a lot of that 20s sound. I've never played one but a number of top swing players like Jonathan Stout and Matt Munisteri have L-5s from this era, However, coming from Gypsy guitar I find the biggest limitation of the original Loar design is the short 24 3/4” scale. You get nice, big chords and flatop like balance with it but it doesn’t project well for leads. I find the short scale L-5s really tough to play leads on acoustically in a group setting.
I had this 29 L-5 here, although it had been restored it was the ideal example soundwise:
Gibson seems to have come to the same conclusion that Selmer did: longer scale length = more power. So, for the same reason I prefer the long scale Selmer design to that of a Maccaferri, I prefer the long scale Advanced L-5 to that of earlier short scale Loar design. With that said, L-5s (and L-7s which are basically the same) are all over the place in terms of sound/projection. The biggest problem is finding ones that aren't overwhelmingly wet and ringy. The overtone wash can be really extreme on many of these vintage Gibsons. I’ve had the best luck with ones from 47-49. They’re consistently the loudest with the best tone. I played an L-7 from 52 once that was also quite nice. Later years never project that well in my experience.
This 1948 L-5 came through the shop recently and was an absolute sweetheart! Don’t let the McCarty pickups fool you, acoustically this one is a monster!
The non-cut Gibsons are usually noticeably fuller/louder than the cutaway models, although you can find some really amazing cutaway L-5s too.
if you’re on a budget the laminate body Gibson L-50s are quite surprising in their projection.
As far as modern acoustic archtops, Eastman is really the only game in town under $5K. The AR805 and AR610 have a lot of the power/projection of these old Gibsons.
They’re X braced so a more modern tone, but still very functional acoustically. The Frank Vignola model is also a really great acoustic archtop: FV680.
The only high end acoustic archtop that I’ve found to be up to the task of acoustic lead playing is the short lived Benedetto Frank Vignola model:
These project really well for lead but still have that characteristic archtop midrange focus. Crazy easy to play. Somehow Bob figured out how to make a short 25” scale project well. Lots of high end cut on this model but not harsh at all.
I had one one of the Benedetto La Venezia models here recently too. Quite resonant for a modern acoustic archtop but the highs are very rounded off, making it a too mellow to cut for leads. Great for solo guitar stuff though....
For amplifiied archtops there are so many options. Benedettos are the clearest, most even, and controlled and can sound almost acoustic with the B6 or S6 pickup:
Personally, when I’m playing in noisy bars and such I like the hard bop setup of guys like Wes Montgomery and George Benson. Super heavy 14 gauge flatwounds, very low action, and twin PAFs. I play straight up Gypsy on this LGB300:
it cuts through all the crowd noise and is still super fat. I just plug it right into the house PA. The twin pickups solve the rhythm/lead volume problem you always have when playing Gypsy amplified. I just use the neck pickup for lead and bridge pickup for rhythm. Just quickly flick the selector switch to toggle back and forth. Example below:
Wow, what a post Michael, thx! Really interesting to read about your experiences and preferences...I've never even seen, much less tried a 20s era LL L-5 and it seems clear I should try to figure that out at least once while I'm still on top.
Honestly, I can't imagine playing an acoustic gig with an archtop and when I used to do the Freddie Green thing, it was always with at least a little bit of amplification. My primary was/is a '51 Epiphone Triumph Regent ("Regent" for cutaway) and it's about as loud acoustically as any archtop I've ever played but not enough to cut through the same way a Selmac can. Every acoustic archtop player I've ever worked with uses some variation of a floating pickup plus vintage tube amp combo (although some are now using modeling amps) while more "modern" players just use a 335-style thinline with humbuckers. But much like with a Selmac, the "retro" sound for playing Freddie Green comping is to only have just enough output from the amp that it blends well with the acoustic tone. And for lead, I really like the sound from old school floating pickups like the CC pickup or a 1100 Rhythm Chief and when you're running into a small tube combo amp, the tone will naturally start to break up to get that great CC overdrive sound (I have an old blackface Princeton Reverb that's perfect for it, tiny bit of reverb adds a perfect amount of presence to the tone as well).
@MichaelHorowitz amazing post!
@voutoreenie I used to do the FG thing a lot, and for years played a 1938 Epi Triumph with a replaced ebony fingerboard. I tried for that very high action and the full on style and was pretty ok at it, but once I started in on Django style playing gave it up.
That Epi had all the mid, and not much else; but was loud (especially with the action in the not quite 1cm at the 12th fret range). often I just grabbed a sm 58 from the sound guy and put it around 1ft away from the 12th fret rather then traditional amplification. Depended on who was playing drums (with the heavy players who were often my favorite, I'd need a magnetic pickup solution!)
I'll third the thanks and gratitude for this very thorough post @MichaelHorowitz . I suppose that is the privileged position you have with running this business is that you see these guitars come and go. Where some of us might only see one examplar of these, you get a running feel for which seem to play well, others less so, etc.