Joscho Stephan alternate picking?! La Gitana lick

jmcgann

from cantzon:

I'm in Korea and have gotten into some terrible debates with people I normally get along fine with. It's not me and it's not them. It's the internet.

Quite a bit of communication is in the delivery and the internet distorts things quite a bit.

from cantzon:

My guess off the top of my head is that you probably can't do a lot of things that I can do.

from cantzon:

be some kind of Django petrified jazz manouche clone, I would recommend the rest stroke.... Maybe you should buy some butane and orchestrate your own caravan fire to be really authentic)

It's not the internet's fault that you choose to call people who explore playing Django lines with two fingers "retarded". Think twice before absolving yourself from loutish behavior. Maybe you can learn some manners over there in Korea- Asian societies uphold manners as a virtue.

Soref

By the way has anyone seen Stephane Wrembel soloing with one finger. It's more than a little scary.

regards,
Jack

jmcgann

Jack- sorry, I cut and pasted the wrong quote!

Soref

No worries John.

Teddy Dupont wrote:

Agree 100%. There is far too much dogmatism around in gypsy jazz at the moment.

Sometimes I feel like you're absolutely right Teddy. However, the more I meet players, especially the really good ones, it seems like everyone's pretty chilled out and not pedantic in the least.
I've heard you mention this often here and on Steve's forum.

I'm curious, when do you think the scene shifted to the dogmatic state you take exception to?

Also how do you think the contemporary gypsy jazz scene would look and sound if the dogmatism you see weren't present?


Regards,
Jack

Teddy Dupont

Soref wrote:

Teddy Dupont wrote:

Agree 100%. There is far too much dogmatism around in gypsy jazz at the moment.

Sometimes I feel like you're absolutely right Teddy. However, the more I meet players, especially the really good ones, it seems like everyone's pretty chilled out and not pedantic in the least.

I do no think the top players are at all pedantic or dogmatic. I think the problem manifests itself on forums like this one.

Soref wrote:

I'm curious, when do you think the scene shifted to the dogmatic state you take exception to?

It gathered momentum with the publication of Michael Horowitz "Gypsy Picking". That is in no way intended as a criticism of the book which I think is an excellent tutor or of Michael. The problem is that it seems to have become more than a tutor. It is now seen as a sacred document that must be adhered to verbatim at all costs otherwise the music you are producing cannot be "authentic" gypsy jazz nor can you achieve the apparently mandatory sound. The consequence is that below the very top level, the music has become boring and repetitive. The same old licks being beaten out time and time again and often executed with questionable effectiveness and a slightly grating staccato bounce. Harshness often being seen as swing. Quite the opposite of the faultlessly smooth, flowing, swinging creativity that I have always loved about the playing of Django Reinhardt.

What is considered to be "authentic" gypsy jazz has changed quite dramatically over the last 10 years. The perception of the genre has become much more limiting and, to me, stifling. I often read posts where individuals say something to the effect that they really like the way the younger players are pushing the boundaries of the music but in fact Django pushed them far further before he died as did many of those who followed him in the 50s and 60s well before the iron curtain came down around the music.

Soref wrote:

Also how do you think the contemporary gypsy jazz scene would look and sound if the dogmatism you see weren't present?

I have no idea. Hopefully, a music where swing, melody and, dare I say, creativity took precedence over technical attack and wizardry.

MichaelHorowitz

Teddy Dupont wrote:

It gathered momentum with the publication of Michael Horowitz "Gypsy Picking". That is in no way intended as a criticism of the book which I think is an excellent tutor or of Michael. The problem is that it seems to have become more than a tutor. It is now seen as a sacred document that must be adhered to verbatim at all costs otherwise the music you are producing cannot be "authentic" gypsy jazz nor can you achieve the apparently mandatory sound.

Yes...this does seem to be somewhat true. I didn't intend the book have this effect...I think people can play anyway they want to. The point of the book is demonstrate the technique used by Django and the other Gypsy players. Personally, I really wanted to learn how to do that because I like the way it sounds. But I would never say anyone has to use the technique. Unfortunately, some people have gotten the impression that you're playing incorrectly if you're not using the technique, which of course is ridiculous.

However, I will take people to task if they say the rest stroke technique is "impossible" and can't possibly work. You hear that a lot from people who were trained to play with strict alternate picking. They just can't accept that rest-stokes actually work!

'm

Stringswinger

What Teddy said! (And a proper reply by Michael H.)

My experience is that the best players are the least dogmatic. And quite often, its just the opposite.

Cheers,

Marc

www.hotclubpacific.com

cantzon

You put in a quote that was not by me. Don't do that.

The part about butane and the caravan etc. was me quoting someone else.

The fact that you attributed the quote to me just underscores my point that the internet can lead to inadvertant confusion.

Jazzmoods

Where can u see the video of Stephane Wrembel soloing with one finger?
:?:

jmcgann

cantzon wrote:

You put in a quote that was not by me. Don't do that.

The part about butane and the caravan etc. was me quoting someone else.

The fact that you attributed the quote to me just underscores my point that the internet can lead to inadvertant confusion.

My point still stands.