Let's hear some bad rhythm

MichaelHorowitz

There are a maybe a few Django recordings which the rhythm section was pretty stiff, but I can't think of which ones off hand. Mostly the difference between rhythm in those days and now is aesthetics. They seemed to like a slower upstroke back then...it's not bad. Just different...but very few players today will play that way.

Even though some of that old style rhythm can sound hokey today, when Django was comping it always sounds great to me! Slow upstroke and all...

One of the best rhythm performances (when Django is playing lead) is I'll See You in My Dreams. Baro did a great job...and I think it helped only having one rhythm guitar. His upstroke was pretty fast...maybe he started the trend?

Teddy Dupont

Michael Horowitz wrote:

Mostly the difference between rhythm in those days and now is aesthetics. They seemed to like a slower upstroke back then...it's not bad. Just different...but very few players today will play that way.

I think it is important not to confuse "bad" with "no longer fashionable". The former never changes. The latter clearly does.

Michael Horowitz wrote:

Even though some of that old style rhythm can sound hokey today, when Django was comping it always sounds great to me! Slow upstroke and all...

Agreed. Django somehow had the ability to swing whatever he did.

thrip

Michael, what do you think of the rhythm playing on the classic 1946 London sessions that included "Coquette" and "Embraceable You"?

An English rythm section that sounds pretty unfashionable to me, yet I think some of the greatest music Django ever produced.

MichaelHorowitz

That rhythm section had probably the slowest upstroke on record. But they sort of made it work. Those recordings are actually Fapy's model for a rhythm section. But he's also one of the few contemporary players who likes old style rhythm playing.

JohnB

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BVlhEczR ... ed&search=

may be of use...
John

motorhead750

Michael Horowitz wrote:

Sure...

How come I can't get the file to play?

Ultraspontane

Teddy Dupont wrote:

I think it is important not to confuse "bad" with "no longer fashionable". The former never changes. The latter clearly does.

This needs to be etched in stone. I agree 100%.

Some players like John Jorgenson play rhythm with a more noticeable upstroke and it sounds great. Jorgenson's rhythm isn't clunky at all. You can hear that upstroke as plain as day, and its still tight and swings like hell.

Others don't even bother with the upstroke, and get a good sound as well.

Then there are those who play the upstroke, and you can't hear it. Why even bother playing something that you are trying hide and make almost inaudible? Seems a little redundant to me... It probably has to do with egos and the need to feel superior.

bbwood_98

Ultra,
No- I think it has to do with tone- the players behind zaiti have a very quick and soft upstroke . . . well, usually anyhow. Great rhythm playing has to swing, fit the music, and be metronomic . . . see freddy green; see hono, see herve, see any of the great rhythm players live and check out what they do then pick what you love to hear. I hate the old school style, but have been forced to learn it in order to fit in onstage with people; but in my band it is not what we play.
I'll second this statement:
I think it is important not to confuse "bad" with "no longer fashionable". The former never changes. The latter clearly does.

Great stuff.

Try to teach yourself to play as many different styles of rhythm as you can, so you can work as much as you want!!
B.

rimm

bbwood_98 wrote:

Ultra,
No- I think it has to do with tone- the players behind zaiti have a very quick and soft upstroke . . . well, usually anyhow. Great rhythm playing has to swing, fit the music, and be metronomic . . . see freddy green; see hono, see herve, see any of the great rhythm players live and check out what they do then pick what you love to hear. I hate the old school style, but have been forced to learn it in order to fit in onstage with people; but in my band it is not what we play.
I'll second this statement:
I think it is important not to confuse "bad" with "no longer fashionable". The former never changes. The latter clearly does.

Great stuff.

If you mean Mathieu Chatelain he doe'snt...

Try to teach yourself to play as many different styles of rhythm as you can, so you can work as much as you want!!
B.

klaatu

Ultraspontane wrote:

Then there are those who play the upstroke, and you can't hear it. Why even bother playing something that you are trying hide and make almost inaudible? Seems a little redundant to me... It probably has to do with egos and the need to feel superior.

I'm just guessing here, based on my own experience, but it may be that doing even an inaudible up stroke helps one to get more of a relaxed swing feel into the hand and keep the rhythm from becoming stiff.