copyright questions

badjazz

I'm currently in law school, and last semester my big project was about 'fair use' of copyrighted material for educational purposes. Without getting into all the legal tests, let me just say that it is a very complicated area, and even people who go out of their way to comply with the law still sometimes get sued. Just to defend the suit, even if you win at the most preliminary stage, can be quite expensive. If you are putting any significant effort/expense into the DVD and don't want to get into a battle that would render your investment worthless, you would be taking a big chance not getting a lawyer experienced in copyright/IP on board from the beginning.

MichaelHorowitz

AJATango wrote:

perhaps sued for saying that it's the chord progression, of said but, chord progressions are no copyrightable. such a law suit would fail

My lawyer said that isn't true...it depends on many factors including how unique the chord progression is, when and where it was composed, how it has been used, etc, etc.

People have been sued for using only the chord progressions of songs, so it's worth consulting a lawyer when doing so. Sometimes you can get away with it, other times not. It's not a hard fast rule....

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badjazz

Keep in mind that they can sue you, even if they are not going to ultimately win, and you will have to defend the case, which is expensive. If you are one person making a dvd and the party who sues you is some company with money, just getting sued can be the same as losing because you may not have the resources to defend yourself legally. Better to make a good effort to avoid being sued in the first place!

And Michael is right, it isn't a simple yes/no answer on chord progressions. Like just about every legal question, the answer is usually 'it depends'.

dennis

thanks for the reply guys we' ve filmed 3 DVDs so far, one more to go tomorrow...

so far there's 9 hours worth of material. 3 hours on each DVD. I hope i didn't break any copyright rules i didnt play any song , i just used a few chord progressions from songs..

instead of saying minor swing, i said an Am swing

HCPhilly

AJTango wrote
" I'd love to see a transcription and comparison of the versions."

That's a cool idea. Maybe we could each contribute a transcription.
I've been transcribing Stochelo's "Live at the North Sea" version,
[based in part on one of Django's recordings].
I've always found this very interesting, comaping transcriptions of the same song by different players, and/or different versions by the same player.
Cheers,
Barry

HCPhilly

I meant to write "comparing," [next time I'll spellcheck]

Azazzell

I know it's an old thread. As of 2019 it looks like one can assume that most music published after 1924 is still under copyright in the US. Here are some internet resources for music copyright:

http://www.publicdomainsherpa.com/public-domain-sheet-music.html

• http://www.publicdomainsherpa.com/public-domain-music.html
• https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Listofcountries%27copyrightlengths#Copyrightdurationsby_country
• http://www.cmrra.ca/faq/music-publishing-faq/
• https://www.harryfox.com/#/faq

Lango-Django

Dennis, here is my advice, as a former schoolteacher...

Give your DVD students a “homework assignment”...

.... “I’m going to play a chord progression from a song that Django wrote... This tune was named after a popular jazz style way back in 1939. It is your job to figure out the title of the tune, because for legal reasons, I am not able to tell you that.”

it works great whether they go on google and successfully complete the assignment, or worst case scenario, they might have to go to the djangobooks.com forum and ask for help... but the main thing is, the actual name of the tune would never, ever pass your lips...

That way you have covered your ass... at least in this non-lawyer’s opinion, you have... but next time I am talking to my daughter the New York City lawyer I will get her take...

Thanks so much for the great work you do for the community, Dennis! It is much appreciated!

Your fan,

Will

stuology

I imagine after 12 years Denis is an expert on this now (is this why no one ever plays the head on DC Music videos?)

But for anyone else interested, this is the position as I understand it:

• most of Django's recordings will be PD (in the EU at least) although there were some only released in the 70s for the first time so I'm not sure about those
• All of Django's solo compositions will be PD from 2023 - so you will be able to record a new version of Nuages copyright free
• However, all of Django's compositions co-written with Stephane Grappelli will stay in copyright until the 2060s! So you will have a long wait to record Minor Swing as a PD tune ...
• Fair use is widely accepted but as someone else said on this thread, it's regarded as a weak defence in law and will be of no use if dealing with an aggressive company with deep pockets (google Bittersweet Melody for a classic example of this). If going down this road, it's always best to approach the copyright holder first and get permission.

dennis

Wow this is a 12 yr old post. As Stu says, I am quite knowledgeable about music copyright law now. It is vastly complex, ambiguous, outdated and therefore the regulation is something that i’m not a fan of. From a simplistic point of view, copyright laws benefit no one but those who have the financial resources to take advantage of them. I certainly believe that artists should be protected but I feel that current copyright laws in North America do more damage to music progress than anything. My 2 cents anyway.

If music copyright laws existed in Bach times, music wouldn’t be what it is today. It’d be far worse. Luckily copyright laws are generally not enforced until there is money to be made, which means most jazz musicians are safe.

but the laws are ridiculously outdated.

i don’t know if i’m allowed to share this story, but someone with a starter up music business that was quickly getting attention once asked a copyright lawyer how he could run his business as it is similar to Youtube. The lawyer basically told him not to worry about it until he starts making a lot of money. Once he starts making a lot of money, the lawyers will come after him to squeeze him as much as possible. That’s the state of copyright laws in the US.