Jon Jorgenson DG-300

RICK-D15

I can attest to what Scotsman is describing. I left work early yesterday to check out Scotsman's DG-300. My first indication that something was wrong was when the headstock said "Esteban". :shock: (just joking around Scotsman!) We played a few songs, Scotsman on his DG-300, me on my DG-250M, and the DG-300 had a noticeably thin tone. Of course, all guitars are different, and I can not assume this is true of all the DG-300s out there. It may be the case that this guitar just needs to "open up", but as Scotsman reminded me, his DG-250 was rich and full right out of the box.

nwilkins

As someone pointed out on another forum, Scotsman's description of his 300 makes it sound like it is a much more Selmer-like guitar than his 250 - the problem here might be that he has the wrong expectations of how a Selmer style guitar should sound? Also, original Selmers were usually mahogany laminated with Rosewood veneer on the back.

drolling

"usually mahogany laminated with Rosewood veneer on the back"

Yeah, I had been under the impression that laminate construction guitars use rosewood on the outer layer only. Now that Scotsman tells us that the his 250 is rosewood all the way thru', I'm intrigued. I'd really like to hear one of these guitars.

As far as the volume issue goes, I hear some players say that the Gitanes are TOO LOUD. I know my neighbours would agree!

RICK-D15

nwilkins wrote:

As someone pointed out on another forum, Scotsman's description of his 300 makes it sound like it is a much more Selmer-like guitar than his 250 - the problem here might be that he has the wrong expectations of how a Selmer style guitar should sound? Also, original Selmers were usually mahogany laminated with Rosewood veneer on the back.

We had discussed this possibility, that we just don't know what these guitars are really supposed to sound like. But I cannot for the life of me see how any reasonable and sober person could possibly think that that particular DG-300 sounds better than his DG-250, or my DG-250M. True, I've never heard a Selmer in person, but when I listen to Django recordings his guitar sound is full, rich and juicy (especially his rhythm sound) and not like that DG-300.

As for the "loudness" of the Gitanes in general, I think loudness is due more to string attack than the guitar itself. I know for myself one of the greatest lessons I've learned regarding this music and these guitars is to play rhythm softly, yet sharply and firmly. If you whack those chords too hard it's going to sound harsh.

Scotsman

drolling wrote:

"usually mahogany laminated with Rosewood veneer on the back"

Yeah, I had been under the impression that laminate construction guitars use rosewood on the outer layer only. Now that Scotsman tells us that the his 250 is rosewood all the way thru', I'm intrigued. I'd really like to hear one of these guitars.

As far as the volume issue goes, I hear some players say that the Gitanes are TOO LOUD. I know my neighbours would agree!

When I drilled a hole for an endpin jack on the Dg250 the cross section was rosewood/mahogany/rosewood laminate,I'm assuming that the back is the same. As rick said we havn't heard any other Selmer types so maybe I do have the wrong idea of what they should sound like all I know is that to my ears the 250 sounds much better.

drolling

"As for the "loudness" of the Gitanes in general, I think loudness is due more to string attack than the guitar itself. I know for myself one of the greatest lessons I've learned regarding this music and these guitars is to play rhythm softly, yet sharply and firmly. If you whack those chords too hard it's going to sound harsh."

Rick, I'm primarily an electric player and having used high gain amps for 35 years, I've developed a very soft touch. If I could say nothing else about my execrable technique, it's that I don't hit the strings hard enough. I have a number of resophonic guitars that were designed explicitly for volume & projection in the pre-electric era and believe me, the Gitanes are louder.

Scotsman, for god's sake mon - don't drill a hole in that DG-300! Put it back in the box and return it to the store. These guitars seem to be in such demand right now that they'll probably ship it right back out to someone else.
dr

RICK-D15

drolling wrote:

Rick, I'm primarily an electric player and having used high gain amps for 35 years, I've developed a very soft touch. If I could say nothing else about my execrable technique, it's that I don't hit the strings hard enough. I have a number of resophonic guitars that were designed explicitly for volume & projection in the pre-electric era and believe me, the Gitanes are louder.

Well, I've never heard another Selmer-type guitar in person, so I can't say one way or the other-- but I will say that my DG-250M is louder than my Martin D15. WAY louder!

Scotsman

Yes the JJ is going back in the box and back to Elderly.
After this the DG-250 is looking real good.

The grass is allways greener......... :roll:

zav

RICK-D15 wrote

True, I've never heard a Selmer in person, but when I listen to Django recordings his guitar sound is full, rich and juicy (especially his rhythm sound) and not like that DG-300.

Rick, it's an interesting comparison, isn't it? At least, you should notice the factor of MASTER and the old recording technique of 30x (by the way, I´m mad of all that quality recordings of the late 30x). So 2 hints - does MODERN recordings sound like that DG-300? And - does modern recordings of to-day's masters sound like that DG?

RICK-D15

zav wrote:

RICK-D15 wrote

True, I've never heard a Selmer in person, but when I listen to Django recordings his guitar sound is full, rich and juicy (especially his rhythm sound) and not like that DG-300.

Rick, it's an interesting comparison, isn't it? At least, you should notice the factor of MASTER and the old recording technique of 30x (by the way, I´m mad of all that quality recordings of the late 30x). So 2 hints - does MODERN recordings sound like that DG-300? And - does modern recordings of to-day's masters sound like that DG?

It's funny that you mention this, as I had just mentioned to Scotsman the other day how I loved Django's guitar sound in the old recordings so much better than the guitar sound I hear from modern day groups. It has to do more with the mix, than anything else I think. You can hear everything else so much better now- the piano, the bass, percussion, that when the lead guitar starts playing it is almost drowned out. There was something about the recording technique on Django's day that really made his guitar stand out-- that's about all I know.