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OT: Italy to fingerprint gypsies
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I hear you. In my prior post I came close to commenting on the loss of freedoms suffered at the hands of the U.S. government, but I self-censored. I didn't want this thread to stray too off-topic for this forum. Trust me: plenty of Americans are alarmed at what's come out of Washington (DC) as a reaction to 9/11 and that's all I want to post publicly about that. PMs are always welcome on ANY topic!
What is happening to the Rom is of relevant interest to us on this forum. Respectful dialogue should be encouraged, not censored.
I feel sorry for the Gypsys as they have done such a good job of preserving their way of life, but at the same time the world has changed. Part of me idealizes this way of life, and when I spent a few years living in a VW bus and traveling about the USA doing farm labor I identified more with my romanticized ideas about the Tzigane than I did with the Campesinos of Latin America that I worked with.
I'll say one thing - I had a few American friends come visit me in the Netherlands. They stopped to watch some Gypsys and I made sure they put something in the hat when it was passed - my experience is that your going to pay one way or another...
I'm curious to see how this all pans out. Italy may have had problems with fascism in the past, but the USA seems to be having problems in the present!
I wonder if Romania got into Schengen how things would change...
agreed, and honestly i have found the article critics are very "simple" in confront of our complex problems. is true that a lot of gypsies work for integration preserving their culture, and is true that a lot of gypsies live in dramatic conditions but the truth is also that a lot of gypsies have more more money than me or other italians, often for illegal activities(like a Lot of us).
So if i must think that they are like me in democracy they must have also the control that I have in case of crimes committed.
But at least I have to say you that if the americans have George Bush in Italy we have'nt much more better, so we have to look at our woods in the eye IMHO.
For TOmmy Hawken: yes, the politicians use them as a goat in the most of case, and it s quite easy, cause the people that live in mid-low class in Italy have often daily problems and questions including immigrates and gypsies, like many other countries, not just the eclatant homicides and violences, but also more "daily" and amministrative questions.
For example in public assistance, there are more case of houses or assistance assigned to gypsies or other immigrates families before of italians that are maybe in the same or maybe in worst conditions of life. This creates obviously a fight in the low classes and also a feeling of a sort of discrimination, its quiet natural.
Lot of countries had this problems i think, but the italian state and govern (including all the politic classes and colors) have'nt done nothing for avoid this situation, they instead flavoured it with ridicoulous laws and measures, maybe this one of the fingerprints is the only one that have some sense, but im not sure of the correct application of this measure, i have a lot of doubt about it...
anyway i agree that before criticize us, peoplehave to learn something about the italian politic situation also just the current situation, maybe they can correct or increment their critic!
for example i have to say that i found much more RACIST the measure included in the "security-packet" proposed by our minister in these days:
In two words it says that if ( for example) i am italian and i steal an apple I'll take 5 years in jail, the same thing done by an extracommunity and the years become 10, for the simple fact that youre not italian or european you are ( i say with their words) overburdened in judjement( 2 times more than others)
This thing has nothing to do with romani cause now they are in europe but i found THIS really racist, for example.
What will say europe if we present the "security package" with this terrible things inside?
ahahhahah ONE???? :shock:
I'm sorry, I guess I'm pretty ignorant to the situation, this is how it was presented in a radio report here.
also, I'm not understanding you, are you saying that the prime minister owns more than one station?
Fair enough, I am not proud of the current state of affairs in the US, but I am of the younger generation who hopes to right the ship. Sorry for the fascism comment earlier too, it was ill advised.
I appreciate your insight. It certainly seems to be a very complex problem, however, I know you agree that any law that only applies to one race of people cannot be accepted.
-Wikipedia
so, keep talking peacefully.
@ TimmyHawken: master-dwarf berlusconi owns EVERYTHING here :roll:
anyway for the joy of our country now they propose to take fingerprints to EVERYONE even italians( actually they never can do causeof there isnt money), same old thing, same all methods to obtain some money from Europe without really applyng any measure but with a lot of good (??)intentions. probably they can change idea about this question in next weeks about 3 or four times more than today, so i stop here to update this topic.
Our media says bullshits and if the foreign media copy from italians is the same thing.
Rom in dramatic conditions? Yeah of course, and Italians?
I guess we American's don't have the monopoly on electing knuckleheads as leaders of the country.