Manouche Modele Jazz(UK) or Dupont Nomade????

Swing 69

Ok I've read great things about manouche guitars but I've also heard good things about the nomade...(BluesBop Harry).
Manouche is (less the walnut neck) almost identical to the originals etc.

Nomade, different woods, cheaper accessories (which doesn't bother me BTW) BOLT ON neck!!! eek. BUT HAND BUILT!
All i really care about is the sound, feel and playability of the thing.(I'll knock the living daylights out it anyway!!)
My father in law has built a good few GJ guitars now and He's been over to Cognac and seen these guitars being built. He says... "if you're gonna buy anything, get a Dupont".
So now I'm toiling, I was kinda set for the Manouche!

I know everyone's gonna come back with "try before you buy, every guitar's different". I know, in an ideal world i would and it's great if you can. I live in Scotland and at a push could maybe make it down to Cheltenham, to try a few manouche, (I'd like a look at the 14 fret D hole too) getting to France,however, would eat into the budget and after phoning customs I'll have, well the new and ever so exciting tax rate of 15% + 3.2% of total value on top to contend with anyway. so the Dupont would probably be a suck it and see.

Anyone played both these guitars??
What's the neck, neck angle like on the dupont, anyone own one??
Really looking for the comparison as opposed to your dearly loved possibly slightly biased opinions.

Merci

Michael Bauer

I have an older Manouche Jazz and it is as good as you could ever want for the money. Samson Schmitt and his brother used it for the Djangofest at Birdland in NY a few weeks ago, and he offered (very determinedly!) to buy it. I wasn't selling. It isn't as good as a VR, but it is very, very close to an MD-50 in sound for alot less money. I have heard the newer Manouches are a little different, but I haven't played one to compare. Harry played a newer one and didn't like it, so there may be some differences from mine, but I think not much. I have to admit, I can't get past the bolt-on neck on the Nomade. I think you need to buy the individual guitar if you can, even Dupont has consistency issues.

I think you need to remember that any guitar you play may not be well played in, so its sound may not have opened up yet. That was true of my Manouche Jazz when I bought it. 3-4 months later it was a different guitar.

Swing 69

I think you need to remember that any guitar you play may not be well played in, so its sound may not have opened up yet.

Yep, I can tell you that if there were the amount of second hand, hand built guitars readily available over here I would actually be looking at one as opposed to new, purely for that reason!. I have no problem with second hand. The AJL currently on sale here at djangobooks looks to be a great buy!!
Yes it's fun breaking them in and over the years listening to it mature but if you can put a new set of strings on it and hear what it's like broken in surely that's a better perception of the instruments real sound. I think I'll be looking at a new one however.

I have heard the newer Manouches are a little different

This is interesting too.

BluesBop Harry

What kind of guitar are you playing now??

Swing 69

Hi BluesBop Harry.

I'm playing on a 14 fret oval hole built by my father in law!
Previous to that, the last oval hole he built. He has built 2 D holes too but they're in other peoples hands.
I've played a few gitanes now, D holes and several other gipsy guitars but can't remember exactly what they were .
He has the favino plans and Michael collins book and is threatening to build one of these, however, I just feel that there are issues with the guitars that are holding me back and the bad thing is, it's not the way they sound cos they really sound good.

frater

I' ve got an MD 50E and a Manouche Jazz Model of the first "Moreno" batch. A lot of people find that the Manouche resemble in sound the MD 50, but this is certainly not true in my case. My Dupont is a really dry one with an outstanding high end while the Manouche has a much rounder "vintage" sound with more bass (although it doesn't lack highs the way the DG 300 does...). I've tried a Dupont Nomade and I think it's good value but personally I wouldn't trade my Manouche for it.

BluesBop Harry

Home built instrument? Nice!
As you see you'll find varying opinions on this topic, I'm just the opposite of Frater and wouldn't trade my Nomade for a Manouche so... It's just personal choice.

Here's what I think:
If you want to upgrade to a great guitar I wouldn't go for anything less than a Dupont MD 100. Just wait and save, you'll be much happier in the end.

The Nomade is really good, I love it... but for me it's a second guitar for gigging, traveling, drilling in holes for a Bigtone, etc.
It seems like you're going for a true Selmer copy and that bolt-on neck although absolutely fine, will have you wanting another guitar just to have the "Selmer experience" in full.
It's a full on Dupont in terms of sound, but in your mind it may not be "the real thing" and you'll start your search all over again.

The Manouche is OK but to me is not as good as the Nomade and far from Dupont's MDs, for an import I rather have a Saga or a Dell arte Latcho Drom for less than what a Manouche costs.

Again with the Manouche you'll get the hardware, glued neck, the looks... but the sound won't be there IMHO. And you'll want a hand built guitar sooner than you can say "Cognac".

For a professional guitar in a "budget" an MD 100 is the best option I think. If you're ready for a good guitar after the starting models don't compromise or you'll be looking for a new guitar in no time.

Best of luck!
PS "swing 69" is a badass screen name, I was gonna name a trio that but found out it was already taken both as the name of a gypsy jazz group and also elsewhere for something entirely different...

Swing 69

Cheers guys, I really appreciate your response and honest opinions.

I've recently renovated my house and i think it'll be a long, long way away before i can afford an MD100 or MD50 I'd love to be able to save up for one!! I've just sold a 1993 Gibson ES-135 which is where most of the cash is coming from to buy my GJ guitar.
I should maybe explain a bit more about my current guitar. mahogany neck, solid rosewood back and sides, spruce top, rosewood bridge, ebony fretboard and manouche tuners and tailpice. Great sound but the trouble is the neck. It's the second one on it and it's wedged now underneath fretboard where it joins the guitar. ie. it's not joining at the correct angle leaving me with a shallow bridge and i'm sure that this is affecting string tension(that being, there's more of it). the neck's pan flat,ie no curve across it and it's 48mm at the nut!! It aint thin either, it's a chunky mother! The action at the 12th fret at one point was around 4.5mm!!!! and it's now just over 3 i think so as you can imagine, it's physically enduring.
I played a 12 to the body saga d hole at one point and there was so much less string tension, however, i know it's a shorter scale and this probably has something to do with it but it was so effortless.
The last one he built was soilid mahogany back and sides and also sounded great with the unavoidable high action (don't get me wrong i like a high action but the bridge was V shallow) due to similar problems with the angle the neck joins the body.
It's a shame about this, he's a top guy (and hey, for a father in law it could be worse, I mean, we visit and i sit up all night chattin away gipsy jazz with him, sippin wine, talkin guitars and playin etc etc) but gettin older, there's always someone in the house or the grandchildren flying about and i really don't think the patience is there to keep going with this.
So you see, i really just want something i can nail the Gm sweep thing at the end of valse de bamboula like i can do,or get the thumb on for a Am6/9 at the 5th fret quickly. these are only a couple of examples, but it is holding me back with the majority of my playing now. Don't get me wrong though, I've sold a hand built Gibson and i don't really fancy replacing it with a saga as for one I'll fritter the spare cash away and 2 I'd rather push the budget that little bit and get something with better build quality setup and tone. and something should i ever find the cash for a MD 50/100 i can recoup a decent amount of cash back for.
Once again guys, cheers for the replies and if you're still reading this, well done because i went off on some tangent there!.

BluesBop Harry

If you are going for handbuilt there's also Geronimo Mateos and Casteluccia (the son) guitars. They have some affordable models.

frater

I also own some Gitanes and I must say that sonically the Manouche is a really different beast: much more snap and definitely more volume than the DG 300 (that I dig for other reasons!). Maybe I've been lucky with my n°20 but it definitely has that gypsy tone... which is not a big surprise considering it has so many "right" features for a Selmer replica (dovetail joint, bridge true to the original design, lacquered interior, a superior tailpiece than usually found...) plus an AAA "bear-claw" sitka top.

mystery_pacific

Go for Dupont any day. I've got a Nomade, everything's right about it. Some of the Gitanes are good, but Duponts are in a different league.

I'd go for one of eBay.fr. Don't worry about playing it - all are good (it's down to player after all). Only Dupont really has the dimensions of Selmers down right - he's been making since the '70s, and I know he's restored loads of originals in the past.

In the words of Jacques Mazzoleni (sic)

'bring on all your Chinese import and weep, because in fact, when compared to the Nomade, all they have going is their price, regarless of all their flashy "endorsements"'