When you live in Texas, there ain't no way to "taste-test" a variety of gypsy guitars to know what's really what. I read about Duponts, Dell Artes and all the rest of the boutique guitars, but it's very hard to evaluate audio clips, due to mics and the multitude of variables. So, I must depend on the kindest of strangers for guidance............
My question:
I'm looking to get a 14 fret petite bouche guitar. If I "settle for" a Gitane Signature guitar like the DG-300, the Lulo, etc. what am I "really missing out on" in terms of tonal nirvana compared to a "real snob-appeal" gypsy guitar? I do own a Gitane DG-500, which I feel is a quality instrument, as far as, volume, and tone. Playability was poor right out of the box. I've also played a friend's Manouche Modele Jazz, but outside of that, my gyp-guitar experience is zippo.
Thanks mucho,
Dave
Comments
My advice to folks who are ready to trade up from a Gitane is to save your money and buy a Dupont. Anything else and you will soon find yourself wanting to trade up again.
To my ears, Dupont is the only maker who has truly captured the sound of the Selmer guitar. Favinos are different (but are quite cool) but rival even Selmer guitars for their sound in this genre. Everything else is just another guitar.
My 2 cents. YMMV
Cheers,
Marc
www.hotclubpacific.com
Thanks so much for chiming in. I'm open to the idea that a Dupont might really be "better". I'm just not sure what that really means. What would I notice being the improvement? Would the Dupont be louder, more dynamic, more nuance of tone, more _______? If we were talking archtop jazz guitars, old Strats, old Martins, etc. I could really grasp what nuances make for a "better" tone. It's just very difficult when you don't have hands-on experience.
Dave
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pF9HC69wgx4
or here
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GuxjSB6Aapk
you'll have a good idea of what a ""better tone" is in GJ is, at least IMO.
I'm not sure though there's any contemporary maker who has truly captured that...
I would second Marc's advice...the Gitanes can be pretty decent if you get them set up well (avoid the Lulo model though, it's the worst of the bunch). But if you stretch and get even more entry level hand made guitar then you're a lot better off.
My top choices under $3000 would be:
USED
Maurice Dupont 2008 MD-100 Oval Hole Guitar (Mahogany Back and Sides)
with Hardshell Case MINT CONDITION!!!
The MD-100s are normally $3k, this slightly used one is a steal at $2.5k!!
Dupont's are great if you want a traditional Selmer type tone....not too much low end, some warm mids, and a crisp high end. Nice complexity as well. Also, Duponts are probably the easiest playing Gypsy guitars ever made...they sound great with fairly low action and 11 gauge strings.
If you want more of a Favino tone (i.e. nasal, barky upper midrange and deep low end) the US made Hommage is an incredible value (one of our all time best selling models!):
DELL'ARTE
OVAL-HOLE HOMMAGE GUITAR WITH CASE
What you will notice if you compare the higher end Asian stuff with European or American guitars is:
1) The handmade guitars generally have warmer, less raspy tone.
2) Handmade guitars are a lot dryer in tone...meaning they don't sound as reverby and don't have much annoying overtone ringing (the Asian ones tend to be really, really wet sounding).
3) The handmade stuff has a more punchy high end (the Gitanes tend to be overly bass heavy, sound a bit like flatops).
4) The handmade guitars play perfectly out of the box and are capable of much more ergonomic setups then the Asian guitars. The Asian guitars tend to need a lot of setup work and very high action to sound any good. You can lower it, but then the tone really goes....
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So, in a gypsy jam session, with a bunch of aces cranking it out, will the guy with the real-deal Selmer (Favano or Dupont) be killing the other, comparable player who is slinging a Gitane JJ? I'm talking tone, dynamics, volume and projection.
Thanks for indulging me, guys.
If you have some spare time do a search for the clip of Joscho Stephan playing a "Cigano" unamplified and producing a tone, volume and dynamics which leaves most of us in the dust.
For me the sound is 90 % dictated by the player, one nice experiment you can do is to play a phrase whith you regular pick on your # 1 guitar, then take an object in your right hand with some weight like a tangerine or small orange, then play the phrase again, you will perceive a significant change in volume and tone by just changing the weight of your right hand ( I think Aspen Pittman or some similar inventor/guitar-guru made a nice gadget out of this)
My point is that there is no "super" guitar, I have played very expensive guitars by name builders which in my opinion were real "duds" and there are some which sound truly beautiful and this goes across the entire field, from the cheapest Asian to the most expensive vintage instruments.
Try to listen to and play as many instruments as you can find, only then you will be able to discern between all the different guitars out there
Anyway, my two cents, happy hunting
kind regards
Frans
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8RGd8reElUQ
or here:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vewGL9kZJh0
Is that "mollesse" something that comes with aging? My two cents? No. The Selmers Django was playing were brand new and had it from the start.
One must also note that in the above cases the guitars are in the hands of two masters of the rest stroke technique: a Selmer in the wrong hands would probably sound pretty deluding... IMO this is the case:
(http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=O3SG2GQF ... re=related) .
Finally : "will the guy with the real-deal Selmer (Favano or Dupont) be killing the other, comparable player who is slinging a Gitane JJ?".
No, he would just sound better.
It's a very good instrument for the money, better than the other Gitanes I've tried. I have not tried the Dorado Schmitt model, and would love to own one.
My guitar sounds good, and plays very well. It's also beautiful. Have you heard a recording of JJ playing his in concert? In this genre, the player has a great deal to do with how good these instruments sound. A respected player of this music tried and played my guitar, and pronounced it, "Gypsy, yes. It's good". Feeling elated, I thought the same of his bespoke Favino. Was his guitar better than mine? Of course it was.
Generally speaking, the better guitars do perform better in a jam. But there are many other variables to consider. Some Duponts are built for tone more then volume...especially the D holes. So you may have a Favino that has an incredible tone but is not really a campfire jam guitar because it doesn't cut as much.
For lead volume, usually the 14 fret oval holes are the best. Ones with aged woods, like the Vieille Reserve are usually much brighter then guitars with green wood. So they cut much more...and of course the good vintage guitars are unbelievable in terms of volume. Old Jacques Favinos and Busatos are so much louder then anything else, they spank even the best Duponts in terms of volume. But unfortunately the aren't all like that and they are very hard to find.
Also, it depends how you play. The guitar matters less for players like Tchavolo or Moreno who play with a very aggressive right hand. But guys like Bireli or Stochelo use a more subtle technique and need a more responsive guitar to be heard.
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