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Perhaps. To be honest though, I didn't get interested in this music because I wanted to play like Django. I certainly appreciate Django, but I'm more of a fan of the style of music than any one player.
The melodic minor certainly works and it raises an interesting point. I hear a lot of solos using both the dominant and major seventh, often as a passing tone, but sometimes with more emphasis. An example would be bending the sixth into the seventh, which isn't a sound you typically hear in other styles of music.
I'll play around with the F#-b5 and D9 arpeggios tonight.
Thanks for the post,
Bryan
It makes sense to me if I tie it all back to the A Dorian sound, which is enharmonic to G Ionian. Thinking that way then makes me reach for the D Mixolydian sound (also enharmonic), which in turn gives you the D9 sound. It all depends what notes you want to emphasize, but I think you'll usually highlight the 1, 3, 5, and 6 of the A-6 chord for it to sound "right." It all depends on context.
You can play a similar game with the F#-b5 chord, based of the F# Locrian mode (again enharmonic to G Ionian), but I find it useful to tie everything to G Ionian to think through the modes quicker. It works for me.
Thinking about the D9 sound you can come up with lots of cool licks/arpeggios/motifs that then switch to D-9 when going to the iv chord. It sets up the transition nicely and you sound like you're playing the changes.
Bryan
Don't get me wrong - I think people appreciate theory - I certainly do. Getting back into music after a 15 year hiatus through Gypsy Jazz has caused me to go back and hit the books to learn/re-learn theory.
But, with those caveats in place... if you're really interested in becoming a Gypsy Jazz guitar player... here (in rough order of importance) are the most important things you'll need.
1.) Passion
2.) Rhythm
3.) A regular Jam Session
4.) Collection of Gypsy CDs to listen to and learn from
5.) Passion
6.) Rhythm
7.) Forearms like Popeye
8.) The ability to play well past 3 pints
9.) The ability to play well tired / sick / jetlagged / hungry
10.) The balls to busk
Theory is a "Nice to Have" ... Django didn't read music and many of the best Gypsy players didn't read (music or anything else - they learned by watching and listening and applying)
So - while I certainly give you kudos for your scholarship - I'm going to do you a favor and tell you straight out to put that on the shelf for now and get out there and find some gypsy players to jam with. Until you've done that - applying theory will only make you sound like a studio musician playing a backing track on a Django tribute album.
One interesting thing is the variations of the bebop scale that Django used. He didn't call it that of course, but he was certainly hip to the idea.
The minor 6 sound is definitely a major part of this style. I discuss these issues in detail in the Gypsy Theory downloads:
See:
Lessons Online
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thinking too much in theoretical terms will be your bane in this music, and the vast majority of all other styles as well... i went on a really long rant about this in another forum a while ago and i dont have the courage to do it again!
i ve never heard you play, but in this style (if you wish to play the rhythm correctly and more or less play within the idiom of the style), it's most likely that no matter what kind of music you did previously, you'll find yourself starting from scratch especially in terms of technique just for the rhythm.... you're also likely to be in for a massive dose of humility (and hopefully inspiration) when you go to samois for the first time.
you don't necessarily have to transcribe entire solos, nor do u have to memorize a whole bunch of lacks, but you should at the very least learn to absorb the music by ear... at least understand the vocabulary by paying attention to the note choices over given harmonies and the rhythmic tendencies.....
based on a number of years of observing and talking to/reading about some of the best musicians, i m more and more convinced that the bulk of today's music education is full of crap especially on the guitar... too much emphasis on the wrong concepts not enough on the essentials (ear , vocabulary, and rhythm training through osmosis) ...
theory and all that academia should only be studied once the student has a more or less solid grasp of the essentials... i can in fact GUARANTEE you that unless anyone has that down, thinking in terms of dorian or melodic minor and all that will never make them a good musician no matter how much theory they know...
and for the record i do hold a degree in music theory
www.denischang.com
www.dc-musicschool.com
You know what would really be cool? If somone were to come out with a book on gypsy rhythm. All these hours we jam and probably spend 10% of the time soloing and the rest pomping... if some knowledgeble and experienced player came out with a book on how to really get that Gypsy crunch... now that would be a cool book.
Yes, I am a smartass...
I'm really not sure whose book is more fervently awaited among the faithful minions... yours or Collins'...
If anyone wants to vote - please step in and add to this long thread. As for me, sorry Michael, I'll have to say I'm anticipating Collins' book just a little bit more than yours because I'm close enough to Seattle to see you every year at DjFNW... but I can't take seminars from Michael Collins because he lives to d*** far away.
By the way - we had a HECK of a cool jam here in Portland recently... we're getting our endurance levels up for the big event.
Just on the fist four notes of the pick up...right? To me that's not enough to really count. He also used it in a similar way in one of his solo pieces. But it really seems more like an after thought then a real attempt to get a melodic minor sound happening. He didn't really seem to use it as a real part of his sonic palate in the same way bop guys use it.
Listen to Sonny Rollins play Blue 7, now that's melodic minor playing!
But I'd be more then happy if you can find more examples to prove me wrong!
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1942 Blues en mineur (the one where Django plays violin first): guitar solo starts with g melodic minor (over Gm-chord) played diatonically from e (6) to d (5), all seven notes. He then repeats the pattern. Then comes Cm, and Django plays c-melodic minor from Eb (minor 3) to Eb, all seven steps again plus this time one passing tone (f-sharp between f and g, third note in the pattern). I see these as scalar passages, played intentionally as scalar passages, although the player might not have known the common name for the scale - and then again he might actually have known the name, but that's not the issue here. Of course, this is not the most inventive opening from Django and certainly not common for him, but still it shows that he has given some thougths also to chord/scale-relationsips.
Couldn't agree more. What I find very peculiar is that the most talented students seem to somehow "get it" anyway, in spite of the crap they are taught - but when they start teaching, they usually teach the same crap, although they must perceive the concepts of soloing differently. Perhaps it is the "if you need to ask, you'll never know"-attitude.
http://www.jazzpartout.com
That's a good example of Django using the melodic minor. It seems that if he was already hip to the Dorian and the Harmonic minor scales it wouldn't be too hard for him to change one note and end up playing melodic minor.
However, I still don't really consider it that important in his playing. Especially because he wasn't using the modes of the melodic minor. Most bop guys would actually play the 6th mode of the melodic minor scale on a minor chord...that way you get the b5. So for G minor you'd play Bb melodic minor. And on a Dominant chord the hip thing to do is to play the 4th mode. So over a D7 play A melodic minor. Or even hipper play the 2nd mode...so Eb melodic minor over D7. I've never heard Django do that....but he obviously did stumble onto the melodic minor when playing minor chords. So he was sort of aware of it...
If you want to hear some advanced melodic minor playing in a Gypsy context, listen to Martin Taylor's version of Minor Swing
thanks!
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