Caveat Moron

frater

http://cgi.ebay.com/Selmer-Maccaferri-v ... 3a5576d282

16 bids...people are nuts. I'm considering trying to sell my 500 Fiat as a Ferrari Maranello budget model on ebay.

crookedpinky

To give the seller his due he is at least posting emails which I - and others - have been sending about this ...ahem....Selmer. There is just so much not right with this guitar that it doesn't bear thinking about - but the seller hasn't stated that it is indeed a Selmac - just reporting what people are telling him.

Mind you even some of that "helpful" info is wrong - e.g. a guitar "handcrafted" by Maccaferri himself and played by Django is worth more - as far as I know all the Selmacs were made in the Selmer factory and none by MM himself. Another odd statement is that "Selmers are cheaper than maccaferris" - really ?

I feel sorry for the seller, who I think has opened up a can of worms but I'm having trouble raising any sympathy for people who have bid on this based on the information provided.

Caveat Emptor ( or Moron - but I think that's a bit cruel ) right enough

Alan

frater

Alan you're right: I've been a bit cruel but I think people should use their money to buy great guitars not real (or fake) wrecks, hoping to hit the jackpot.
GJ stands for Gypsy Jazz, not Greedy Jazz!

crookedpinky

Hi there - I agree. I just find it odd that someone who seems so keen to own a SelMac must have an appreciation of why they are so special yet know so little about them that they are effectively taking a gamble on something which just looks so wrong.

Mind you, two years ago when I first got into this I did the same thing on a smaller scale by buying on Ebay when my desire to land a bargain blinded me to the very obvious fact that the guitar was a pile of crap. All the faults on the instrument I received were more or less visible in the pictures on Ebay and if I had remained objective about the purchase I wouldn't have made the mistake. In that case it really was Caveat Moron - the moron being me.

frater

I'm in awe of the immaculate swind... err, selling technique of this guy. He really deserves all the money he's going to get. Chapeau!

Texasrockabillyrebel

Wow, somebody found #511........again! Whoever wins that thing is in for one hell of a shock, I almost feel bad for them.

There's more putty in that rosette than wood!

Bob Holo

Wow. That's .... um.... unfortunate.

At first I thought the guy was just ignorant - no crime in that. But a certain ethical malleability seems present. The finish is a bad antique job & put together with the rosette and odd profile and lack of pliage makes it likely that the top is not original. The body shape is odd... either an undocumented prototype or not original. The headstock logo pic is not clear but it sort of looks like the word "Selmer" is dropping at a slight downard angle and the "Henri" and "Paris" don't appear to take up the right amount of space in the logo... but again - the picture it not clear. The only clear picture of the headstock is from the top and just looking at that - the headstock veneer looks much thicker than it should be.

The label is the most legit looking part, but photocopying is not a new technology and it appears to have the same antiquing over it and the writing is inconsistent with what you'd expect to see on the label. and appears to be in thin blue ink... looks like ballpoint pen ink ?!? The old Macs were typically written in black with what appeared to be a fountain pen... the later ones were stamped. It's worth noting that the ballpoint pen was fairly whizzy technology when this guitar was supposedly made. Ballpoint pens were invented in the mid '30s but didn't really make it to market till well after World War II. For grins I googled the price of a ballpoint pen in the mid '40s and found it to be about $12+ which would be pretty close to $150 in today's currency. How likely would it be that a $150 pen would find its way into the pocket of a tradesperson in an impoverished and war-ravaged France? ... Hmm ...

There's just too much going on here for any reasonable person to play ignorant. Anyone know if there is a method for reporting possible fraud on Ebay?

frater

Right. Also the name of Maccaferri was removed from the labels when he left Selmer so it's quite strange to see one of those on a oval hole. And in those labels you had the number on the left hand box and the model in the right hand box. Later you could find the number in both boxes. What 's impossible to find is a Selmer with TWO DIFFERENT NUMBERS on the two hand boxes...maybe because it doesn't make any sense!

crookedpinky

Hi there, absolutely agree with all the points which make this a fake - particularly the label. Also I have seen other pictures of the guitar, not shown on ebay, and the neck pictures provide even more evidence that it's a not genuine or complete Selmer as we know it. But before anyone goes reporting anyone to Ebay maybe you should talk to the seller - I have and i think he is just incredibly naive on the subject of Selmers, he seems like a decent enough guy selling off his late fathers guitar collection.

And, also bear in mind, it seems to be potential buyers who have told him it's a genuine Selmer and are backing up their belief by upping the bid - despite the warning bells being rung on the ebay page itself. There are people who - after seeing the additional pictures which the seller will send on request - still choose to believe that this is the genuine article.

Still, it'll be interesting to see what it goes for.....

Alan

Bob Holo

crookedpinky wrote:

it seems to be potential buyers who have told him it's a genuine Selmer and are backing up their belief by upping the bid - despite the warning bells being rung on the ebay page itself. There are people who - after seeing the additional pictures which the seller will send on request - still choose to believe that this is the genuine article.

That's fairly decent perspective on the situation... It does indeed seem like there are a few folks circling and attempting to get a Selmer for below market price. Well then, perhaps the original title of the thread is most appropriate...

Good catch on the "Mac" on the label. I didn't even notice it because the flippin' blue ballpoint pen had me busy picking my jaw up off the table. ;-)

Jack

Updated today:

"I am now sick to death if this guitar. I must say it has not been a good start to selling a large number of guitars on ebay. I'm sorry to have listed this not knowing 110% as to what it is . I have heard from lots of experts and lots of people who just seem to want it no matter what views others have. When I can get to the house PC I will end the auction."

I'd still like to know the whole history...something about the body shape is so familiar...