Caveat Moron

thrip

People still seem to be bidding on it though...

Texasrockabillyrebel

That was pretty decent of the seller to remove it. I probably would have let it go and make some serious cash off of some poor bastard!

bjewell

If it is a fake it is one of the best I have ever seen. You cannot fake age and years of dirt. Why is it a fake, I'm not up to speed on old Selmers although I've owned 100s of guitars over the years. :- )

crookedpinky

First off - a Merry Christmas to all of you.....................

Well, why was the guitar a fake ? there were a number of reasons.

In general - the shape was wrong, lacking the symmetry of Selmacs. Secondly, the tailpiece and tuners were not correct - although these could have been later additions.

Specific concerns - the last fret on the fingerboard was split across the curve - this was not a feature on Selmacs. The headstock to neck joint was a long scarfe joint and not the tongue type joint on Selmacs which shows as a horizontal line behind the nut. (This could have been a later repair to the original neck)

The soundhole rosette was really rough and poorly made and looked nothing like those on Selmers.

Perhaps the biggest alarm bell was the label which looked absolutely spot on except for three things. The first was that the numbers on the label made no sense at all. There were two numbers, one in each of the boxes either side of the label. The standard practice was to put in the serial number in one and the model in the other, e.g. Jazz, Orchestre etc. When production switched exclusively to Oval hole guitars ( which the one on Ebay was alleged to be ) the serial number was written in both boxes.
Secondly, some people thought the numbers had been written in Biro - I didn't think so - but the point was that Biros weren't in popular use until later decades.
Thirdly - and for me the biggest give away - Mario Maccaferris name was still visible on the label. Macaferris name only ever appeared on D hole guitars, never on Oval holes.

A number of people suggested that the lack of symmetry was due to a later repair to a cracked top. While this is possible it is unlikely that a repair would distort the symmetry to that extent.

If it ever was a genuine Selmer - of any description - it must have been damaged and repaired to an extent that there was little of the original left. However the label is the one thing that is definitely not genuine. It's the wrong label for an Oval hole guitar and the numbers are nonsensical.

The thing about Selmer construction was that it was essentially one of the first examples of mass production of guitars. Some people have suggested that one of the numbers on the label was the number of the "craftsman" who built it. The fact is that no one person built a complete guitar, F Charles excellent book The History of Selmer Guitars" outlines the factory line production methods used in the construction of these guitars and while individuals are mentioned they are only ever mentioned in relation to one area of production, e.g. neck blanks, gluing up backs and sides.

Another person mentioned to the seller that if the guitar had been made by Maccaferri himself it would be worth more. That would be great if Maccaferri had made any of these but there has never been any suggestion that any Selmer was handmade by Macaferri.

As for faking ageing on a guitar,not only can this be done but can be done well enough to fool many of us. Fender do it with some of their guitars - e.g. Rory Gallagher and Stevie Ray Vaughan models - and charge a fortune for it, although not with the intention to deceive. Some Gypsy makers do it too, check out Eimers guitars here

http://www.eimersguitars.com/antique_oval.html

In comparison the guitar on ebay looked like a really poor attempt to construct a fake but without any attention to or knowledge of the details necessary to fit with the known facts about Selmers.
Would a forger for example ever build and attempt to sell a fake 59 Strat with humbuckers as an original Fender ?

The seller of this came in for a lot of criticism but - after contacting him and looking at more detailed pictures - it was clear that he didn't know anything about Selmers and was being given completely incorrect information by people who clearly had no idea either but thought - or hoped - they were getting a Selmer at a bargain price. As others have said, it's to his credit that the seller withdrew the guitar from Ebay.

bjewell

Wow! Thanks for the info. My eyes can spot a fake, a relic, what have you in American guitars, no problem. But Selmacs are new and very deep water for me.

Thanks again!

Tq