Minor Swing (rhythm)

HennoxLane

Hi y'all,

I've been playing together with a friend of mine for about three months now and yesterday we made some recordings.

now, while I feel pretty confident about my rhythm strokes, I noticed that I am making some strange movements with my hand while playing.

that's why I'd love it if you guys could take a look at this vid of minor swing, and give some constructive feedback about my rhythm.

Also, we recorded Bossa Dorado where I'm doing the solo, most of it is improvised and incorporating some ideas from Stochelo Rosenberg, but here I don't feel too confident.. Feedback about this is also appreciated very much (oh, in both clips I'm the guy in the striped sweater)



thanx in advance!

Jazzaferri

Hennox

In watching your rhythm I see a fairly active forearm in the up and down plane. I wonder whether prolonged high speed rhythm strumming with your technique might end up with a repetitive strain injury. If you are already playing/rehearsing/practicing 4-5 hrs a day with no problems you may be fine ...... no way of really knowing. With that much motion I would suggest you stretch well before during and after your sessions.

In faster pieces I use more wrist roll as it puts less strain on the arm tendons

HennoxLane

well, I am already trying to keep my forearm as still as I can, while trying to strum with a wrist-motion. I guess I should keep it even more motionless?

I can't really imagine what's the best way to practice this then.. watching myself in the mirror? ... Guess that could work

one other thing though.. Do you happen to have a video example of the "perfect" way to do la pompe? 'cause when I watch Nous'che Rosenberg for example I can see he's also moving quite a lot sometimes. That really confuses me .

concerning the sound and swing.. how's that moving along? (all things really difficult to evaluate on your own )

Jazzaferri

Hennox

Everyone is a little different in physical shape and condition. You appear youngish and may be fine with more arm motion. There are lots of GJ players who have a fair bit of motion. IF you want to change a mirror may work for you or splint your arm in position so that you can only move your wrist.

By overemphasizing the desired motion in practice the freedom during playing usually results in the motion one wants.

Lots of arm motion when playing slow helps with timing. I move as much or more than your video on slower tunes. In faster tunes my forearm near the wrist moves maybe through 2-3 cm ... almost all wrist roll motion. Watch Nous'che at high speed not slower tunes and observe his motion becoming more economical although not as economical as I have to be. :shock: To add pespective though, he has been doing GJ rhythm for hours and hours a day since young and his body has developed and grown naturally around this motion.

If I recall correctly Dennis Chang's DVD's go through rhythm motions very well.

I got corrected and helped greatly by Matthieu Chatelain a few years ago. Made a huge difference to how long I could play rhythm for without any arm issues.

Jazzaferri

As to sound and swing

You seem to be coming along just fine .... we usually are our strongest critics so if you and your duet partner listen to your own stuff and keep working on what you like and changing what you don't you will end up with your own style and if you practice 4-5 hours a day (lots of it done QUITE SLOWLY) ..... scales arps etc etc. using a timing device (I use Band in a Box cause it does the chord changes as well as the timing) you will get there....

Half a century ago my best friend's dad who was a superb pro swing guitar player told me there are 3 stages in a musicians life. Stage 1 the instrument plays the player all the time ... Stage 2 sometimes the player plays the instrument sometimes the instrument plays the player .... Stage 3 the technical demands of the instrument no longer get in the way.

frater

I friend of mine was told by Mondine (if I'm right) that rythm should be "dry" and "light". I suggest you work on the "light" part...

HennoxLane

thanx for all the good advise guys! I'll definitely keep it in mind.

Frater, I'm a little confused what you mean by "light".. u mean stroking the strings with a lighter touch...? I'm not sure I'm getting this..

frater

Yes. Both Wawau and Stochelo stress that out in their DVDs: you've got to remember that the rythm guitar has to "help" the soloist. If he has to struggle to be heard, that's not good for the music. Also, as Stochelo notes, one has got to keep it swinging (and that's easier to do if you don't play with full strength). Does this goes against a misinterpretedd "campfire philosophy" where the louder the rythm the better? Oh yes, it does.

HennoxLane

I see what you're getting at, but it's not proving to be a simple task..

especially because when playing with that featherlight touch, you need to be incredibly precise about how your pick hits the strings.. something that's pretty easy to accomplice when playing solo, but gets so much harder when playing rhythm. At least that's my experience.

frater

Featherlight maybe is too much! The concept is to have a reserve of strenght so that you can use it in the right moments and add dynamics to your playing.

Jazzaferri

Good rhythm in GJ is as difficult to do well as solo guitar.

Listening to your piece again and reading Frater's suggestions ... I think he is absolutely correct ... a drier and a lighter touch on the rhythm. In Minor Swing I hear the first chord of a bar ringing throughout the beat a lot of the time .. sound's like you are doing this as an embellishment which is fine but IMO to be truer to GJ most of the time cut it shorter.

Too much emphasis like this can also get in the solo players way. Personally I like a little changeup at the end of the last A in an AABA piece as a helpful reminder of where we are in the tune. My buddy and I have been playing together a couple of years. He does the rhythm guitar and I have discovered that in fact ...for us ....he actually drives the song. His very subtle rhythm changes influence what I am going to say next (at least when I am listening well and we are on the same planet) and he feeds off what I am saying in his rhythm so it becomes like a working conversation.

When I practice rhythm (which I still do most every day) SLOWLY I let my 1 & 3 beat chords ring through til the pick reaches the top string or maybe the bottom of the on handstroke and the 2 & 4 beat I start my mute timing pretty much as the pick hits the strings. I would add that if others who are better rhythm players than I chime in and disagree with my comments listen to them. Some kind generous souls say my GJ rhythm is OK but I know what I want to hear and I know what my hands can't do at speed :shock: :oops: