Manouche Concert nylon string for sale

Michael Bauer · August 2010

This is one of six prototype copies Manouche Guitars made of the classical/gypsy hybrid Selmer "Concert" model. This one is serial #72. It comes with the Hiscox Lite Flight case. I apologise for the poor pictures and will get better ones for anyone who's interested as soon as I can find the wife's camera.

This is one of the "Moreno" series, which to my mind are the best guitars Manouche made. I was going to wait to sell this until I got my new one of the same ilk from Rodrigo Shopis, but I am chasing another vintage guitar and would like to move this now to help raise the money.

This guitar has a really big sound for a nylon string guitar. It's great for travel because you can bang away in a hotel room without getting tossed by the management, and yet it sounds lovely for classical music as well. Ottorino Galli was in Chicago in June, and for the first time I was convinced at how good nylon strings can be for gypsy rhythm.

Spruce top, Indian rosewood back and sides. This is a really nice Selmer clone with all the details right. Asking $1,400. Send a PM with questions and offers.

Bohemian · August 2010

Are the backs and sides laminated ?

Michael Bauer · August 2010

I believe so, but let me try to confirm that with Manouche.

Michael Bauer · August 2010

Barry Warhaftig says laminated, which agrees with what I think. It's too light to be solid wood, and they were copying Selmer pretty closely, and the Selmers were laminate.

kimmo · August 2010

Michael Bauer wrote:

--they were copying Selmer pretty closely--

Details... The gut-stringed Selmer Concert had the position dot in the 9th fret, because that's how classical guitar fretboards were (and are) supposed to be marked. It wasn't until the steel stringed model where Maccaferri chose to copy the 10th fret position dot from banjos to help banjo players make the transition.

Michael Bauer · August 2010

First, Kimmo, classical guitar fretboards aren't marked at all, generally. I studied classical guitar for many years, and you were expected to know your way around the figerboard without help, unless you wanted to get laughed off the stage. I'm sure someone out there makes a classical guitar with fret markers, but that would be pretty uncommon. Selmer certainly didn't. Second, the Concert model was not Selmer's classical guiatr, but more a crossover model. Not all the Concert models had fret markers to begin with. And just as some of the steel string models had 9th fret markers, at the customers request, I can imagine that somewhere out there some customer ordered a Concert with a 10th fret marker. The bigger question is, "Who cares?" A fret marker can be moved easily. A 10th fret marker is, to my mind, so much more logical than a 9th, I'd have switched it anyway. I actually had to go look at the guitar to be sure I hadn't. Anyway, thanks for letting me know that this isn't the guitar for you.

kimmo · August 2010

Hi Michael,

It wasn't my intention to put down your guitar, I'm sorry if I made that impression. I'm just arguing that "they were copying Selmer pretty closely" is not a true statement.

Michael Bauer wrote:

Second, the Concert model was not Selmer's classical guiatr, but more a crossover model.

Sorry, but that's where you are wrong. Maccaferri was a performing classical guitarist, who's aim was to improve guitar's sound and playability in that context. Don't take my word for it, it's in Francois Charles' book The Story of Selmer Maccaferri Guitars:

The Concert model was the one on which Maccaferri had worked the most. It was "his" instrument. He christened it Concert as an echo of the many concerts that he had given. He believed that this instrument was worthy of being used by the best concert performers of the classical repertoire. (p.59)

Michael Bauer wrote:

Not all the Concert models had fret markers to begin with. And just as some of the steel string models had 9th fret markers, at the customers request, I can imagine that somewhere out there some customer ordered a Concert with a 10th fret marker.

There you are partly right: there were some steel stringed Macs with 9th fret mark and some Concerts without any dots. But there weren't any Concerts with the 10th fret dot. Again from Francois Charles book:

[In model Concert] There are white position dots on frets 5, 7, 9 and 12. On the very first instruments made, up to No 100, no position dots were fitted. (p.60)

There's Django with one:
http://www.djangostation.com/jazzmanouc ... rticle=438

Michael Bauer wrote:

The bigger question is, "Who cares?"

It just tells you, which market this guitar is aimed for. You say they were copying Selmer pretty closely, but they weren't. This guitar is not aimed for concert performers of the classical repertoire, it's for guitarists familiar with steel stringed Selmer-copies (hence the odd dot-placement), i.e. for gj/latin/crossover repertoire, also playable with a flatpick. As such it probably is a much better choice for most people in this forum than a Concert.

There's one thing missing from all nylon stringed Selmer copies I've seen, including mine, something Maccaferri himself thought essential:

Every single instrument of this model [Concert] was built with a soundbox inside the body.--Certain notes on the traditional classical guitar are always louder than others; some notes have a tendency to produce wolf tones, others to be pinched or stifled. The soundbox eliminated these inequalities and produced remarkable evenness of response across the full range. (p.60-61)

Michael Bauer wrote:

Anyway, thanks for letting me know that this isn't the guitar for you.

I'm sure it's a fine guitar, but I already have a nylon-stringed Concert look-a-like from a different builder. And probably like yours, it's great for many things, but it's not a Concert replica. If I didn't have it, I'd certainly consider buying this.

Michael Bauer · August 2010

Hi, Kimmo, and thanks for the continuing bump!

I have Charle's book as well, and althought I have never met him, I am very good friends with a lifelong friend of his who deals in gypsy guitars. If you refer to Charle's book, you will note that while Maccaferri may have thought of this as his classical guitar, Selmer didn't exactly think of it as theirs. They had the Classique model, whch really was a proper classical guitar. The fact that Selmer added fret dots to the Concerts somewhere near (perhaps even before) the time that Maccaferri departed is pretty strong evidence that Selmer didn't consider it a pure classical guitar, which is actually what I said, if you go back and look. Once it had fret dots, it was no longer being aimed at the classical guitar market.

As for the fret dots: even Francois will admit he hasn't seen but a tiny handful of these guitars, and can't tell you how many were made, where they were sold, etc. His book frequently represents his best educated guess. So because Francois hasn't seen a Concert with a 10th fret dot is not particularly strong evidence that none were made as a special order. We seen the reverse exception in oval holes because there are more of them around. If the few that were made had been lost to time, we'd have been wrong to argue that they were only made with 10th fret markers. We just can't ever know. You aren't really going to argue that fret-marker location is a serious flaw, are you? One of my Busato's, in absolutely original condition, had the fret marker on the 13th fret! Do you think he meant that, or that it was handed off to an underling who didn't count so well? I admit, I had it moved (Not without some serious agony...), since I and others use the guitar and it could confuse people. I have seen another Busato where a fret marker had been placed on the 4th fret instead of the 5th (Same assistant?)! It had also been moved, either at the factory or later. I don't know who this guitar was originally intended for, but perhaps a 10th fret marker was requested. In any event, I don't think it seriously disqualifies a guitar as a copy.

As for the sound hole... Well, you have me there, along with just about every maker of d-hole Selmer copies of any sort around today. Sure, Maurice Dupont and a handful of others have made a few resonator examples (I've played one of Maurice's, of which there are well fewer than ten, I am told.). Maccaferri's resonator wasn't much of a success, and most were removed. Charle states that it was most successful on the Concert model, and that's probably because it was the one Sel-Mac that was actually Maccaferri's original design, and which got most of his attention in the transition to production. Failing to put resonators in their update of the guitar is just following modern practice, so you're going to have to slap around just about every GJ luthier making d-holes. Imperfect? Yes. Perhaps I should have said that Manouche was trying to copy a surviving Concert model from which the resonator had already been removed, but that wouldn't be accurate, because Manouche designed fan bracing for the guitar to try to replicate the bracing inside the resonator of a Mac. Call it a modern compromise...one that made the guitar affordable, since building a resonator would have doubled, or tripled the price, both when it was built and for anyone buying it now. Manouche wasn't aiming at the high-end market, just the notch above Saga and below entry-level Duponts. I think they succeeded admirably with those early guitars. I've owned two Gitanes (DG-300 and D-500) and three Manouches (Jazz, Orchestre and Concert), and I can tell you my experience has been they are a considerable improvement over Gitanes (Which are, however, great entry-level guitars). But a resonator wasn't in the budget.

What I can tell you is that it's a great sounding little box. Alfonso Ponticelli played it last weekend and liked it alot. We recorded it and I am waiting for him to send me the sound file to post. I am getting rid of it because Rodrigo Shopis is building one similar for me. I've always wanted a Shopis guitar, and with his classical background, this seemed like a perfect project for him. I still play the Manouche every day and like it alot. It has just become expendible with the Shopis coming, and expendible now because I need money to buy another vintage guitar I've been chasing for a year or so. Rodrigo did the setup on the Manouche, so it's very easy to play. Nylon strings help there as well. Oops! Another flaw! They should be gut!

BTW, I checked out your website and liked the clips! I have a good friend in Helsinki, so one day when I get over there, perhaps we can debate the finer points of Selmer design over some local brew. If I still have it, I'll bring along the Manouche for you to try. Here's betting I don't have to bring it home!

Cheers.

lewshel · August 2010

See my post about Thomastik Infeld strings. I'm on my second set. They
last about 6 month. Great warmth on my Jesus Jurado Macaferri Classical.
Mr. Jurado has his own website again.

Michael Bauer · September 2010

I was finally able to get a sound clip of the guitar. Not a tune, but playing the guitar all over the neck to it can be heard in all registers, with single notes and chords.